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.223 flyers

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by svg4, Apr 17, 2010.

  1. svg4

    svg4 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I have run into a puzzle. I have been shooting a Savage 16F in .223 for about a year. I load, so I have been playing with different loads and bullet weights. Some combinations it likes, some not so much. Even the ones it doesn't like, are still with in a couple of inches in the extreme. Then I loaded some Sierra GameKing 65 Grain with my normal 778 powder. ( Lymans data) I have a 9" twist. They went everywhere! I was having trouble keeping them in a 4" circle on all sides of center! I double check my load data and they were right in the middle. Nothing extreme. No pressure signs. I am no loading guru, but this seems extreme. I would appreciate any thoughts, Thanks
     
  2. the4thshake

    the4thshake Portland Active Member

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    I tried 55 grain GameKings and they were all over the place no matter what I tried. It wasn't as bad as you described but far from exceptable. Someone else out there may have figured out how to get them to group well. I gave up on the Gamekings though....Do yourself a favor and try out the 69 grain Matchkings. I think they will put a smile on your face.
     
  3. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    Try a lower grain...I was having the same problem with some 62gr .223 out of my 1:9 AR-15 and couldn't group to save my life. I've found that my 1:9 likes the 45gr a lot more than anything else out there.
     
  4. motoman98

    motoman98 Gresham, OR Active Member

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    Well, my Ruger 220 Swift loves those gamekings in 55gr hp. .5moa all the time. Slow twist is why: 1 in 14.
     
  5. CrossHairs

    CrossHairs Tigard Active Member

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    Each gun likes it's own bullets. I was using some 52 Grain Noslers in my Savges 12 VLP and could not get a group to save my life, yet my buddy stuck the last load I put together in his Rem 700 today and thought he'd hit the lottery jackpot!
     
  6. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    I've not had good success with Sierra rifle bullets, only their pistol bullets

    Try Hornady, I have had fantastic results with them
     
  7. svg4

    svg4 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I have been shooting 40 and 53gr V-Max and shot consistent good groups. It wasn't till I tried the Sierra 65 gr. that I had any problem. I have been trying to move out to 200 and 300 yards and was hoping to get a little more stability in the wind out of the heavier bullet. What do you guys shoot at longer yardages.
     
  8. the4thshake

    the4thshake Portland Active Member

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    I use to shoot the 69 grain Matchking out to 300 and the 77 grain Matchking at 600. Now I pretty much just shoot the 77 grain at all distances. It has less wind drift and my guns shoot it just as well as the 69 grain. The 75 grain Hornaday match bullets seem to be getting similar results as the Sierra. I need to load up more of the 75's before I can draw any further conclusions. All of my .223 rifles are AR's with a 1-7 or 1-8 twist.
     
  9. svg4

    svg4 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Thanks the4thshake, I am going to try the 77's and see what happens. I will pick up some Hornaday 75 Match at the same time. It would be an interesting comparison.
     
  10. the4thshake

    the4thshake Portland Active Member

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    Make sure you push them fast enough to stabilize them with your 1-9 twist. You should be able to get them fast enough. The heavy bullets like a slower burning powder. I like Tac for a ball powder or H4895 in a stick. If for some reason you can't stabilize the 77 or 75, try the 69 or 68 grain.
     
  11. Grizzly_A

    Grizzly_A Portland Metro Area Member

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    The Sierra 69 gr shoot very well in my Savage .223 1-9. You might try a slower powder like Varget, 4064, etc.
     
  12. svg4

    svg4 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    That sounds like a good idea. I am not sure why I didn't think about that. I was thinking more about a faster powder, but this makes more sense. I will try to pick up some. Thanks
     
  13. afp

    afp o New Member

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    Assuming there is nothing obvious wrong--like a loose scope, loose guard screws, or an excessively dirty barrel; what you are seeing isn't unusual at all. I have had the same rifle shoot from 1/2" to 4" groups, depending on the load/ammo I was using.

    Often, the powder charge in the middle isn't a combination that barrel likes with that bullet. I usually start low and work up in one grain increments, though with a 223, half grain increments might be better. I stop increasing powder when I get best accuracy or ANY pressure signs at all (flattened primer, sticky bolt lift, or a velocity spike). I shoot everything through a chrono and consider the chrono one of the best pressure reading tools we have.

    Once I find the best powder charge I start adjusting seating depth to fine tune accuracy. Now if I can't get close to desired accuracy and velocity with a given powder, then I won't mess with seating depth but will simply change powders. If I can't get a bullet to shoot with 2-3 different powders, I'll change bullets.