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.223/5.56 SD/HD Ammo Questions

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by RedneckRampage, Mar 4, 2012.

  1. RedneckRampage

    RedneckRampage Newberg Well-Known Member

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    I'm looking for some good .223 or 5.56 ammo for HD/SD. My plan is to buy a 840rd can of X855 Penetrator and keep it sealed up for a bad situation. In addition I'd like to keep 5 mags loaded with the best HD/SD ammo I can get. What do you guys recommend?
     
  2. Hardwood floor guy

    Hardwood floor guy Beaverton Active Member

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    depends on your rifle and what barrel twist as to what bullet it can handle.
    also barrel length will determine which ammo to use.the x855 is a good universal bullet though that can be shot from a 1:12 twist or a 1:7 twist.that would be my first choice.also i like some tracer rounds so if you have a nasty person in a house you could burn it down from 100yds away:)
     
  3. Kevatc

    Kevatc Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Would a ballistic tip bullet be a decent choice?
     
  4. sneakboxer

    sneakboxer NW OR Active Member

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    For HD and SD you should consider the construction and layout of you house whats down range (kids/neighbors). The difference between a city apartment and a rural cabin are quite different. A rifle can carry a long way. After those considerations are made i'd look to reliability and shoot a few mags of each to ensure proper cycling. I'd probability run 50gr BTs and 60gr partions staggered to get the best of both worlds. Lots of houses have been cleared with FMJs so cycling/reliability in your gun is important.
    I hope this helps and that you never have to use it.
     
  5. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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  6. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    There are a crap-ton of different bullet designs out there available to civilian and law enforcement that are better than the M855 loading the military uses. Given the options for better bullets, I can't see why anyone would default to a more basic hague compliant military version. I use the AR platform for a lot more than home and self defense, as a consequence I have a ton of different bullets. One of my favorites is the barnes 62gr TSX-BT, it's a great bullet for hunting, and I've used it to good effect on 250lb hogs. However, this bullet will penetrate too deeply for self defense use, so I use the barnes 55gr MPG (frangible core) or the 50gr VG.

    To take a hunting perspective, humans are a light thinned skin game, roughly in the deer class, both in size and body construction. We don't have heavy bones, protective layers of fat and cartilage like pigs, so a heavier hunting bullet is likely to pass through before doing any damage.

    I don't mean to make light of this subject, but I want a medium weight bullet (55-65gr) with a very high muzzle velocity, that fragments rapidly on impact. If I remember right, Galen noted that most wounds of a depth greater than 2" were almost always fatal, however this was before antibiotics and many of the other life saving gizmos we have today came along. Bullets that will take vascular tissue to a depth of 2-4" and turn it into a mass of hamburger meat center mass are the ones that kill.

    I advise you to think out of the box a bit when it comes to picking defensive ammo, even if you don't hunt, take a look at the hunting bullets out there.

    Also +1 on ballistic tip, do a great job on coyotes.
     
  7. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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  8. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    Another funny thing about the word Sabot, is it's use as the root word for sabotage, the original use, dutch workers would toss their shoes into the workings on automated machines, fearing the machines would make the workers obsolete. And yea, the pronunciation is just like in sabotage say-bot or say-bo-tage.
     
  9. Kaniffy117

    Kaniffy117 Edmonds Member

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    As a note about XM855, the bullet itself is a FMJ with a Steel Penetrater, be careful where you shoot, that bullet will go some distance before it stops and if you live in an urban environment that could mean several houses... Im not an expert on how far it will go or what it will do so dont take my word with serious weight but be wary that it can possibly happen
     
  10. Kevatc

    Kevatc Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was pronounced say-beau. My wife's business partner is a former tanker and he calls them "say-beau's"
     
  11. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    This would be correct as far a the Army goes. To be totally correct it's pronounced "sa-ˈbō" with the the "a" sounding more like the "a" in "at" or even the "a" in "ah". There is no "T" in the pronunciation.

    Most tank commands are exaggerated in their pronunciation to make sure there are no misunderstandings so they aren't totally correct for real world.
     
  12. Kevatc

    Kevatc Oregon Well-Known Member

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    So more like "saw-bo"?
     
  13. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    That too:thumbup:
     
  14. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    I didn't catch what type of rifle you have. I know some guys do it, but I would never shoot 5.56 from a rifle made only for .223. The 5.56 is a LOT hotter and has a LOT more pressure. The other way around is no problem. (And yes you can shoot 5.56 in all Ruger mini 14's except the Target model.)

    Do you have a 5.56 rifle?
     
  15. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Far too many people thnk they're the same exact round, they are NOT!!
    Also the leade on a .223 can be a lot longer and cause problems in the chamber.
     
  16. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    5.56mm NATO chambers have the longer leade.

    As for duplicating rounds, I load .223/55gr that have the exact same speeds as M-193. What else does one have to do to get the "same"?

    .223 can be shot in 5.56mm chambers but 5.56 Surplus ammo in a .223 can be a problem unless the .223 has a Wylde Chamber.
     
  17. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    I suppose it's possible that the Mil spec brass, being thicker and stronger, "might" be the choice for 5.56 loads. Many semi auto or select fire guns don't fully support the case at the feed ramp.

    I don't mess with .223 brass, but then I don't know of anyone who's had problems doing it. There will be a faster pressure build in the mil spec due to the smaller inside volume (due to thicker brass) and they do chrony different for me using the same powder charge. The 5.56 brass cartridges have been faster for me but YMMV.
     
  18. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    The "Nato" brass for 5.56/.223 isn't any thicker by design. Some may be more than others but it's not like the 7.62X51 where the cases are really thicker, holding as much as 3-4 gr less powder.

    The Lower the case weight, the higher the "volume" and thinner the walls, as a rule. Brass is way heavier than powder so don't try to make the jump that a lighter case will hold that much more powder. The best way to tell is to fill each case in question with the same powder and then just pour it out an weigh it.
    The variations with NATO 5.56 brass is due to different forming dies at the various manufacturers, just like commercial brass. There was a chart posted on a forum several years ago showing the differences in headstamp.

    Check it out here:

    223 Rem + 223 AI Cartridge Guide within AccurateShooter.com
     
  19. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    So now that you smart guys have had the obligatory reload and 223 Vs 556 discussion,which I appreciate in the reloading section,can we get back to the subject at hand???

    Seriously,if you are in an urban setting,is the 556 AR the best choice,unless we have a real SHTF scenario? We're talking a lot of potential collateral damage to everyone within ,what? 500 yards?
    In the country I can see it,but in town seems you are looking for trouble.

    So how about the AR pistols and velocities? Would that slow the round down and control over penetration better?

    BTW I do appreciate you big brains .
     
  20. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    Ever visited the "Box O' Truth". Yes, according to them a 55gr .223 round will penetrate lots of pieces of drywall IF they are all close together. In the real world the danger of a .223 round penetrating much when it passes through walls, either going out or coming in, is greatly reduced due to the light weight of the bullet and it's tendency to tumble. Once the bullet starts to tumble it looses velocity quickly and consequently the ability to penetrate more. As for "collateral damage" why aren't we reading about the huge death tolls from collateral damage after police shootouts? Could it possibly be that there isn't all that much?

    For "Home Defense" there are different scenarios. Defending against an invader, inside the home, and defending the home itself from attacking hordes. For me, a long gun is a poor choice INSIDE and a pistol is a poor choice for OUTSIDE.