.22?

[sapper77]

You shoot my cat, and you'll have to get thru a hail of my 22 rounds to collect it.

But I'll agree with the rest of what you said. The 22 might be a small round, but it kills more people than any other round every year from what I remember reading. And just because it's small doesn't mean people will be OK with getting hit with it, it will work just fine as a deterent. And perfect for small game hunting, like squirrels and rabbits.

"He shot my cat your Honor, thats why I murdered him"

 

[Ben B.]

Even suppressed you still get the signature sonic crack from standard/high velocity 22lr unless you're shooting it out of a very short bbl pistol (Beretta 21a / Bearcat comes to mind)

You can better shoot a .45 with a wet can than a 22lr if you want quiet.

I own a number of silencers and a number of host firearms. Std velocity is not supersonic from most pistols, up until 6" or so. Most hi-vel is subsonic from my 4"-5" pistols. Target speed ammo is not supersonic from rifles, nor is CCI std vel from my 16" 10/22s. A wet .45 can is about as quiet as a dry .22 pistol can, which is pretty good, unless you are trying this in a library. A .22 rifle w/ can & target or subsonic ammo is about as quiet as it gets, and that sound won't travel more than about the length of house.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

Theres plenty of critters around here to eat. Heck once SHTF urban deer hunting will be a blast for about 2 weeks. Theres a bunch of deer living here in town. And just out of town is a bunch of stables and even a couple dairys.

Horse,, yum, the other red meat. Ate a bunch as a kid. You could buy it at most meat stores. And for my 2,2 cents the little deuce deuce is an excellent choice as a survival weapon. And here we go,, if you could have only one .22, which one would it be?

 

[oremike]

In a SHTF where I had to grab and go I'd take my 30-06 and 1911, however given a little more time the next rifle and pistol I'd take would be my Savage bolt action .22 and Hamerilli Trailside.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

Versatile indeed Salted. The first Deer I ever killed as a 10 year old kid was taken with an old Sheridan PUMP .22! My Grandfather had put it in my hands many times before, this time to get me out of his hair I think. There were several Deer that always hung out in the Filbert orchard out back, I should have known better and did, but I crept in close enough and somehow managed to get one in between the ribs and into the boiler room on the first shot, it jumped and ran a short distance. As I was pumping the rifle, it started coughing as I recall and walked further away towards the other Deer where it lay down. I was trying to get closer when the other Deer moved off and it tried but failed to get up. As it struggled to get up I became rabbit scared. I went to the old man and told him I had shot one of the Deer, he told me "don't be shooting them #$@! Deer, your Grandma will have your butt". I told him it was just laying there and he followed me out to the scene of the crime. I think he was almost as astonished as I was when he saw her, she was dead as a stone when we got there. I was pretty sure I was in for it when I asked him, what are we going to do? I'll never forget when he looked at me and said, well WE are going to drag it back to the barn boy, grab a leg. I helped as best as I could and received the lecture that you can imagine. It was a lesson that was well remembered. I don't believe Grandma was ever told, or if she was, she never brought it up. That was a long, long time ago, and with just a .22 pump pellet rifle. Since then I've seen first hand just what the little .22 is capable of. The little turds nothing to scoff at. She's flat deadly to humans and other critters out to AT LEAST 300 yards.
.22LR LETHALITY - 300 Yard Ballistics Test - YouTube I wouldn't want to have this flying at me.

 

[tacompton]

There was an article I read about a suppressed 10/22 rifle the Israelis where using to "harass" leaders of marches and such. It was meant to hit someone in the legs and take them out of leading the march, but soldiers where shooting leaders in center mass, and yes killing them. It is deadly with good shot placement evidently, even at distance.

 

[MikeE]

The problem with. 22lr is what we're seeing now. All it took was panic buying to wipe out the supply. How would that work in a really bad shtf scenario?
Wouldn't the kind of round i would want be easily reloadable, using the less powder the better?

 

[AMProducts]

Good comments so far, but a few things worth adding:

First - survival reloading is a myth, if you really think you're going to have time to reload any substantial quantity of ammo, or "bug out" with your reloading kit I really question your sanity. Buy ammo, yea it's expensive right this second, but it's cheaper now than it's been in a year, and it may be cheaper in a few months.

Second - "Hoarding" in the current context means buying things you don't need and denying the someone else the opportunity to buy something they do need. There's really a sour place in my heart for the people who went out and bought up all the .22 from walmart and other stores and then sold it for 5x the price on craigslist, it's just created a feedback loop of bad karma and has probably prolonged the "shortage" by months.

Third - most people think of .22LR in terms of having a dedicated gun that shoots it. Frankly the idea I like better is using .22LR as a conversion for a .22 centerfire rifle, namely a drop-in kit for the AR. I bought one of those CMMG drop-in .22LR kits a few years ago, and it has been one of my most solid investments, yea it's almost the same price as a ruger 10-22, but I don't have to purchase a second set of optics or deal with the added weight. For those that have the AR as their primary platform, there is zero reason not to see it as their first choice, since it means training and practice are now cheaper, and it also means you can hunt small game with the same rifle you defend yourself with.

Finally - suppressors suppressors suppressors, yea, the bullet may be subsonic out of a 16-20" barrel, but with a can on it, you can hardly tell, it is down-right quiet, and frankly I think the bullet hitting the target makes more noise. .22LR cans are cheap, most are easy to take care of, and provided it can be taken apart for cleaning there's really no reason it won't last nearly forever.

 

[U201491]

Versatile indeed Salted. The first Deer I ever killed as a 10 year old kid was taken with an old Sheridan PUMP .22! My Grandfather had put it in my hands many times before, this time to get me out of his hair I think. There were several Deer that always hung out in the Filbert orchard out back, I should have known better and did, but I crept in close enough and somehow managed to get one in between the ribs and into the boiler room on the first shot, it jumped and ran a short distance. As I was pumping the rifle, it started coughing as I recall and walked further away towards the other Deer where it lay down. I was trying to get closer when the other Deer moved off and it tried but failed to get up. As it struggled to get up I became rabbit scared. I went to the old man and told him I had shot one of the Deer, he told me "don't be shooting them #$@! Deer, your Grandma will have your butt". I told him it was just laying there and he followed me out to the scene of the crime. I think he was almost as astonished as I was when he saw her, she was dead as a stone when we got there. I was pretty sure I was in for it when I asked him, what are we going to do? I'll never forget when he looked at me and said, well WE are going to drag it back to the barn boy, grab a leg. I helped as best as I could and received the lecture that you can imagine. It was a lesson that was well remembered. I don't believe Grandma was ever told, or if she was, she never brought it up. That was a long, long time ago, and with just a .22 pump pellet rifle. Since then I've seen first hand just what the little .22 is capable of. The little turds nothing to scoff at. She's flat deadly to humans and other critters out to AT LEAST 300 yards.
.22LR LETHALITY - 300 Yard Ballistics Test - YouTube I wouldn't want to have this flying at me.

That Sheridan was a .20 cal (5mm) and heavy pellet that thumped damned near as good as a 22lr if pumped up enough. It was my favorite of all the pellet rifles.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

The problem with. 22lr is what we're seeing now. All it took was panic buying to wipe out the supply. How would that work in a really bad shtf scenario?
Wouldn't the kind of round i would want be easily reloadable, using the less powder the better?

MikeE, if you recall, that same shortage issue happened and still is happening to powder and primers. Until recently that same shortage was affecting EVERY ammo type from the .22 all the way up to large bore hunting ammo. The takeaway for me was being prepared before the storm came along. I didn't need to buy a single round during the panic buying, and still don't. I do reload as well, and due to years of picking up supplies at good prices, I still have enough to last a very long time. It wasn't hoarding, it is a passion for shooting sage rats that kept me in supply of .22, if you went over to Silver lake on a four day shoot and didn't bring a minimum of 6000 rounds you faced the very real possibility of being a spectator, not much fun. The same can be said for the .223, why pour powder and primers + time into the .22-250 when 1k rounds of .223 could be had for around $150? Ah, those were the good old days my friend, funny how it seems like 2004 was a very long time ago!

 

[MikeE]

MikeE, if you recall, that same shortage issue happened and still is happening to powder and primers. Until recently that same shortage was affecting EVERY ammo type from the .22 all the way up to large bore hunting ammo. The takeaway for me was being prepared before the storm came along. I didn't need to buy a single round during the panic buying, and still don't. I do reload as well, and due to years of picking up supplies at good prices, I still have enough to last a very long time. It wasn't hoarding, it is a passion for shooting sage rats that kept me in supply of .22, if you went over to Silver lake on a four day shoot and didn't bring a minimum of 6000 rounds you faced the very real possibility of being a spectator, not much fun. The same can be said for the .223, why pour powder and primers + time into the .22-250 when 1k rounds of .223 could be had for around $150? Ah, those were the good old days my friend, funny how it seems like 2004 was a very long time ago!

Yes, 2004 is 'back in the day' to my younger friends. Ouch!
You and AMProducts make excellent points. Panic buying affected the whole supply chain.
If SHTF means bugging out in a scenario of complete collapse, sure, reloading is a myth.
The problem to me is preparing for the most likely scenario, medium term.
It seems most likely that SHTF will mean, at first, continued, dramatic decay of the middle-class economy and increasing division of society into protected enclaves for the wealthy, and the rest of us mixing it up down here in Proleville.
As this develops, what is appropriate for self-defense ammunition? What would continue longer, bartering for reloading supplies or for common ammo like 22lr? Would there be any difference? I don't know, just asking...

 

[salmonriverjohn]

Good questions MikeE, I think both would serve. The issue with reloading material is that they would be of value to those that have the know how to utilize them whereas the more common types of ammo such as the .22 etc. would most likely be of more value to those that don't.
It would take a very long time indeed before I would require bartering. Unless it were perishables such as antibiotics, which in their case would only last as long as anybody else's. I don't believe any one weapon should be fully depended upon in a SHTF situation given a choice, break downs happen and two of every caliber would be preferential. I also feel that a bare minimum for any weapon depended upon would be a thousand rounds.
One rifle for long range, -06 or other such caliber, one for in closer, a .223 or .762 x 39, pick your poison there, and a must have would be a good pump 12 gauge. I also like the idea of having a good pellet rifle around.
These all would basically be for bug in purposes. If it came time to up and leave, I will lean towards the .22, and I really like AMProducts idea with the AR conversion, don't have one yet, but will now, thanks AMP!

 

[U201491]

We have a couple pellet guns at about 150ft went clean through steel oil drums. And are silent sound like a pop and thats it.
We ( my son and I ) though for varmint SHTF these are the way to go for backup to a 22LR. We 22LR rifles and pistols so for us it would remain key. I go back to what may have said, and to reiterate I can keep in a back pack easy 2000 round 22lr and 500 rounds pellets and barely know its there, ever round out there other then a 17 weighs double and more per bullet. I debate of a heavier rifle for SHTF, but carefully decided the setups we have make it practical for everyone. I am not even sure if I would lug around the ammo and such for the others, might sell or trade them gees even my 40sw 1000 rounds weighs in at around 50 or so pounds. ( not sure the exact but feels like it) And my 22lr weigh maybe 2-3 pounds per 1000

Yeah, between me and the pellet gun and the home made firecrackers, My granddad was kept busy replacing the half barrel cow troughs more than he would have liked to

We had several around. He would use toilet valves and floats to make auto fillers.
The right mix and I could make flat sheet metal out of them

 

[U201491]

MikeE, if you recall, that same shortage issue happened and still is happening to powder and primers. Until recently that same shortage was affecting EVERY ammo type from the .22 all the way up to large bore hunting ammo. The takeaway for me was being prepared before the storm came along. I didn't need to buy a single round during the panic buying, and still don't. I do reload as well, and due to years of picking up supplies at good prices, I still have enough to last a very long time. It wasn't hoarding, it is a passion for shooting sage rats that kept me in supply of .22, if you went over to Silver lake on a four day shoot and didn't bring a minimum of 6000 rounds you faced the very real possibility of being a spectator, not much fun. The same can be said for the .223, why pour powder and primers + time into the .22-250 when 1k rounds of .223 could be had for around $150? Ah, those were the good old days my friend, funny how it seems like 2004 was a very long time ago!

We used to do that with Jackrabbits around Boardman, Cecil and Ione back around the time they were building the John Day Dam.
We could actually herd them from draw to draw and back and forth all weekend and never run out of Jacks.
The old ranchers used love it when we came over. The rabbits did a lot of damage there. A few K rounds a weekend was nothing.
Stocking up is not hoarding if it is not done for the purpose of taking it off the market solely for profit. You cannot buy enough ammo for personal use. When My son shot small bore, we bought approx 5K rds of match ammo a month to put through his anchutz. He Went through 2 barrels in that rifle. I sifted enough lead out of our sandtrap to keep us in fishing weights for several years.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

We used to do that with Jackrabbits around Boardman, Cecil and Ione back around the time they were building the John Day Dam.
We could actually herd them from draw to draw and back and forth all weekend and never run out of Jacks.
The old ranchers used love it when we came over. The rabbits did a lot of damage there. A few K rounds a weekend was nothing.
Stocking up is not hoarding if it is not done for the purpose of taking it off the market solely for profit. You cannot buy enough ammo for personal use. When My son shot small bore, we bought approx 5K rds of match ammo a month to put through his anchutz. He Went through 2 barrels in that rifle. I sifted enough lead out of our sandtrap to keep us in fishing weights for several years.

Love those jacks over there! We even used to go onto the Navy bombing range after them! That was back when I was immortal, invincible and immoral!

 

[U201491]

Love those jacks over there! We even used to go onto the Navy bombing range after them! That was back when I was immortal, invincible and immoral!

The days when the road was paved with them

 

[stratbastard]

Could not agree more with you! "Hoarding" is a word we will see bandied about with fervent frequency as soon as things get sparse or go bad.
DESPITE the fact that a person who prepares far in advance to provide for his family can only do so by a diligent practice of VIRTUE i.e. saving, planning, going without common luxuries... basically disciplining himself to do what most others will NOT (even though the opportunity to do so is available to everyone else as it is to the "hoarder") this long-term display of virtue will be turned 180 degrees on its ear and then called a VICE. Calling it a vice gives permission to those undisciplined and irresponsible to label your acts of virtue a CRIME of sorts, and therefore giving them the right to seize "hoarded" goods to be shared out among the irresponsible throngs... and feel virtuous as they do it. The only alternative is for them to be accountable for their own inaction, and to the consequences of such... and I don't expect to see much of THAT.

Hoarding is a term invented by 'socialists' (commies)It starts with the premise that you have no right to keep your private property

 

[stratbastard]

Ever see a slide-fire stock on a S&W MP15 .22? The rate of fire on "bump fire" empties a 25 round clip in one burp... that's a LOT of accurate lead downrange with no muzzle climb. I always wanted one of those old American 180 full auto .22 carbines with the 275 round pan magazine.