.22 magnum pistols

[Alexx1401]

Thanks. Appreciated. While yes a 22.mag may not be the best for stopping power I believe I can perform well enough to 'dissuade' an intruder. I don't expect to be confronted by a determined attacker within my home. Granted this may happen yet I think it unlikely. An intruder is unlikely to be anything but a burglar and a pistol in his face along with a few warnings will likely be sufficient. I am willing to look at other options so any advice would be appreciated. I also was a police officer in the military so was trained with firearms to some extent and yet that was farther back than I can (or wish to) remember. And certainly, taking a shooting class would be recommended; I have not fired in firearm in 30+ years. You mentioned that you own four .22mag pistols. Could you inform me as to where I could look for these?

Certainly your choice but, sadly we are not living in the same world we were not long ago. Drugs and mental health issues are becoming a huge problem. It's becoming more and more common to run into what I refer to as drug zombies. People with mental health issues who also are high on street drugs. Now with cameras everywhere we get to see a lot of shootings we never used to. It's often scary to watch people soak up multiple hits from a Police Offices service weapon and not stop.
If you want to try some guns before buying this is always a very good way to shop. Many ranges have rentals. This way you can try something before buying to see how it works for you. Far cheaper than buying something then finding out you don't really like it.

 

[Geardo]

If you are worried about recoil, a compensated VP9 or glock 17 or glock 34 will shoot very soft. Even my arthritic mom can shoot one.

A .22 mag handgun is going to be very loud.

 

[ditchtiger]

Look at the ballistics for .22 mag pistols.. pretty lame. Get a .22lr

Get a 22TCM

 

[wayne singer]

Wow, lots of replies, Thanks. I shall look into every piece of advice as I want to make the correct choice.

 

[Mike97124]

I think anyone that buys a gun with the idea that they are going to use it for home defense should have to go through a training course where they actually fire their wepen of choice in a simulated house, in the dark and without ear protection so they can experience it as well as see what kind of wall penetration the bullet has that isn't stopped by a body. You rarely see anything about noise and flash results and how they can affect both the assumed attacker and home owner.

I know there was one story where a home owner was shot (and I believed killed) after he shot at an intruder because he could not hear the police that arrived yelling at him to drop his gun. The various law enforcement and military agencies use flash bangs for a reason and that is what you are holding in your hand when you fire it off at night when it's dark and in a closed space.

You hear lots of people with their opinion of what gun is best for home defense (and a lot believe that bigger is better) but very little about what happens when you actually have to use it. For me, I choose to have a pack of Bouvier des Flandres (you have to know Bouvs to know what I mean) between me, my wife and anybody stupid enough to try and get into our house. Someone may get past all of them (currently it's 5) but by the time they do, I will have had time to pick out a gun, load it, put on my ear and eye protection, call the police, call the cleaners, turn on the lights and wait. My feeling is if I don't have time to do at least the first part, then it probably wouldn't matter how prepared I was.



Not this particular time but a bit later the guy had his hand lose feeling and turn white for a short time because of the full bite compression he received from the dog.



Mike

 

[Alexx1401]

I think anyone that buys a gun with the idea that they are going to use it for home defense should have to go through a training course where they actually fire their wepen of choice in a simulated house, in the dark and without ear protection so they can experience it as well as see what kind of wall penetration the bullet has that isn't stopped by a body.

Mike

That would be so expensive that a great many could not have a gun at home.
As for the noise and flash this is hyped a lot. I have to assume by people who have never had to use a firearm in a situation other than target shooting. I used a shotgun, in the house. Ears later had that tell tale ring for a while although I could hear fine talking to the people. Did not even notice till long after when the effects wore off. Did not remember hearing the blast or feel the recoil at the time. Have since spoken to many who have had the same situation and they all said the same thing. They did not hear the gun, or feel the recoil and could hear what others were saying to them after. The guy who was shot by the Police was supposed to have had bad hearing loss before the shooting.
I do now days keep a set of the ear muffs that amplify sound and cut out loud noise. If I had time to put them on I would. Guns at home are certainly NOT for everyone. Anyone who is afraid of them should not have one.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I think anyone that buys a gun with the idea that they are going to use it for home defense should have to go through a training course where they actually fire their wepen of choice in a simulated house, in the dark and without ear protection so they can experience it as well as see what kind of wall penetration the bullet has that isn't stopped by a body. You rarely see anything about noise and flash results and how they can affect both the assumed attacker and home owner.

I know there was one story where a home owner was shot (and I believed killed) after he shot at an intruder because he could not hear the police that arrived yelling at him to drop his gun. The various law enforcement and military agencies use flash bangs for a reason and that is what you are holding in your hand when you fire it off at night when it's dark and in a closed space.

You hear lots of people with their opinion of what gun is best for home defense (and a lot believe that bigger is better) but very little about what happens when you actually have to use it. For me, I choose to have a pack of Bouvier des Flandres (you have to know Bouvs to know what I mean) between me, my wife and anybody stupid enough to try and get into our house. Someone may get past all of them (currently it's 5) but by the time they do, I will have had time to pick out a gun, load it, put on my ear and eye protection, call the police, call the cleaners, turn on the lights and wait. My feeling is if I don't have time to do at least the first part, then it probably wouldn't matter how prepared I was.

View attachment 556724

Not this particular time but a bit later the guy had his hand lose feeling and turn white for a short time because of the full bite compression he received from the dog.

View attachment 556725

Mike

And tea and crumpets after!

 

[Mike97124]

Alexx1401, yes, it would be expensive, but I'd still like to see some actual and factual research and demonstrations concerning this. You find just about everything else on YouTube, from shooting water bottles to pork ribs to cast iron pans, etc., and some of those presentations are not cheap either (a lot of course are real cheaply done).

I don't know how you can say the noise and flash is hype... I get a pretty good flame out of my Colt .357 when I shoot it. I've also gotten some pretty good flame out of my S&W .38 Special. Not so much out of my 9mm Beretta but still a good flash at times. Even my wife's .380 can create a flash that in a dark house when your eyes are adjusted for the dark would be pretty startling. As for noise, I've stood next to people shooting large calibers and even with ear protection it is loud outdoors and even louder in an indoor range. On some, just the over pressure it creates can be physically felt and if not expecting it can be just as startling as the flash bang. With a shot gun and it's longer barrel, maybe that makes a difference from a short barrel pistol.

If anything is hyped, I'd say it is the need for a gun for home protection. I'd say the excuses are used as a means to sell guns and keep more of our rights from being taken away. Statistically speaking, how many times has someone owning a gun stopped someone from breaking into their home or apartment? Most break ins are during the day when nobody is home. Yes, there are some bad parts of any town and city where robberies, break ins, assault, etc., are a daily occurrence (parts of Portland and Gresham come to mind) but for the most part, the people that live there are not on these forums nor are they out there lobbying for more gun rights.

You are right that guns are not for everyone but I feel that too many people that probably shouldn't own a gun or where one could end up causing more problems than it solves, are buying into the "gotta have a gun for home and self defense" propaganda, just like too many people fall for the same propaganda against gun ownership by the anti-gun groups. Unfortunately most of the media is full of propaganda aimed at what ever message that person or group is trying to get out... and a lot of it is fake or only partially true on all sides.

Speaking of tea and crumpets... I need to go get some tea and get some cookies for the dogs. Gotta keep them on my side.

Mike

 

[turq]

S&W model 48 6"

OR a Rem youth 20GA with a 7 rnd mag ext. 8 rounds of Praire Storm ammo will stop any drug zomby.

Edit: arthritis...shoot it anchored to your hip.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I have been looking to purchase a quality .22 magnum pistol, Ruger, S&W, etc., not a revolver. Several websites I have visited discusses them so I am assuming they are still made, however I have been unable to locate a firearms dealer that carries them. Information as to availability, thoughts on particular brands would be helpful please.

I think I'm hearing that U are primarily looking to scare off a burglar/intruder without doing a lot of harm. Also to use a caliber u are comfortable with (I assume u are looking for low recoil?). Also to keep costs down.

Perhaps u could get a short barrel shotgun (18.5") with a pistol grip. The first 1-2 shots could be very small birdshot. The rest OO buck. That way u can scare off with minimal damage and if needed u have more effective force after that. Recoil might be an issue for u though unless u are talking about .410. Maybe 20 gauge? Cost would be about $150 ish used or $300ish new. I think the shotgun option might meet ur needs but still be effective enough if u need it. With many of the less effective options such as .22, shot placement is absolutely critical as others mentioned above, and that's why they are a poor choice imo for home defense.

Re .22 caliber, there are tons and tons of choices for 22lr handguns, smaller tactical guns etc. and most of those choices are inexpensive. For example the walther p22 QD costs $250ish on sale. It will hold 15 rounds if you u buy the $26 tandem cross mag extenders. Comes with 2 mags. For small tactical something like the $350 hk 416 made by Walther can hold 30 rounds and u can mount flashlight to it (nice to have for home defense) easily.

For 22 magnum the issue is cost of ammo (usually that means less practice 4 u) and very, very few choices for autoloaders. I know some people like some keltec guns but personally I would not trust my life on one of those (personal preference). The excel arms is $500, is big, and only holds 9 rounds.

U might also consider .380 as there are tons of choices and it can have low recoil depending on what gun u choose.

Some info. on a couple guns mentioned above:
18.5" barrel $150-$200 Pump shotgun with $45 folding stock



Walther p22qd



Walther p22 qd first impressions

Hk416




HK416 Pistol in 22LR Questions

Excel arms 22WMR

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I have been looking to purchase a quality .22 magnum pistol, Ruger, S&W, etc., not a revolver. Several websites I have visited discusses them so I am assuming they are still made, however I have been unable to locate a firearms dealer that carries them. Information as to availability, thoughts on particular brands would be helpful please.

FYI I was looking at some muzzle energy numbers of 22 mag vs. 22 LR and a 22Mag hornady Vmax 30gr out of a 4" barrel has a muzzle energy of 127 ft. lbs. A 5" barrel has muzzle energy of 171 ft lb.s

The PMR 22Mag pistol has a 4.5" barrel, so if we average the numbers between 4" and 5" we get 149 ft lb of energy at the muzzle.

In contrast, a 22lr CCI stinger has 145 ft lbs out of a 9" barrel (like the one shown in the hk 416 above).

So a 22Mag with a barrel less than 5" isn't much better than a 22lr with a barrel of 9" or longer. It looks like the 5" barrel length is the point where the 22Mag energy sort of falls off a cliff.

Numbers were from ballistics by the inch website BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: Results

Also as a reference point for one of the other guns mentioned above, a 12 gauge slug out of a 20" barrel produces roughly 2300 ft. lbs

 

[Pandaz3]

I think anyone that buys a gun with the idea that they are going to use it for home defense should have to go through a training course where they actually fire their wepen of choice in a simulated house, in the dark and without ear protection so they can experience it as well as see what kind of wall penetration the bullet has that isn't stopped by a body. You rarely see anything about noise and flash results and how they can affect both the assumed attacker and home owner.

I know there was one story where a home owner was shot (and I believed killed) after he shot at an intruder because he could not hear the police that arrived yelling at him to drop his gun. The various law enforcement and military agencies use flash bangs for a reason and that is what you are holding in your hand when you fire it off at night when it's dark and in a closed space.

You hear lots of people with their opinion of what gun is best for home defense (and a lot believe that bigger is better) but very little about what happens when you actually have to use it. For me, I choose to have a pack of Bouvier des Flandres (you have to know Bouvs to know what I mean) between me, my wife and anybody stupid enough to try and get into our house. Someone may get past all of them (currently it's 5) but by the time they do, I will have had time to pick out a gun, load it, put on my ear and eye protection, call the police, call the cleaners, turn on the lights and wait. My feeling is if I don't have time to do at least the first part, then it probably wouldn't matter how prepared I was.

View attachment 556724

Not this particular time but a bit later the guy had his hand lose feeling and turn white for a short time because of the full bite compression he received from the dog.

View attachment 556725


Mike

I am NOT going to practice for a hearing loss. I already have hearing aids. I know what I can do. I don't have animals at home anymore. But I still don't worry. I don't use my PMR-30 for home defense because of the fireball, but that in itself would be scary I think.

The PMR-30 is a great choice, but the only current auto 22 magnum I own. You could try Gun Broker and get a AMT maybe.

I do have NAA and Heritage convertibles that live with the magnum cylinder installed. Single actions.

I have a S&W 351PD that is a seven shot double action J Frame snubby revolver and it is easy to shoot accurately

I think you should consider a double action revolver the Model 48 is a classic in 6" or 4" and has a six shot capacity, stepping down further in price you have my seven shooter the 351 PD, but they have a little cheaper 351 C that has a concealed hammer, still a seven shot double action only

 

[Deavis]

I think you should address the software problem first:

"I do not expect...."

If you could anticipate what the threat and fight would look like then you could just avoid it.

With that caveat, If you have clear future vision, please PM me the next winning powerball numbers.


I would seriously look at training (software upgrade) before thinking about hardware.

 

[deadeye]

I bought one of the Armscor/ Rock Island XT22m pistols (finally found one at Sportsman's) . Haven't played around with it much yet but it does not like the lighter weight poly tip ammo (much like the PMR 30). I shot a little, stripped it down cleaned/ lubed it and haven't been back to it yet. Good quality for what it is but extra mags are somewhat hard to find at a price that wont give you a stroke.

https://armscor.com/firearms/ria/xt-series/xt-22-magnum-22-magnum

 

[AMT]

I bought one of the Armscor/ Rock Island XT22m pistols (finally found one at Sportsman's) . Haven't played around with it much yet but it does not like the lighter weight poly tip ammo (much like the PMR 30). I shot a little, stripped it down cleaned/ lubed it and haven't been back to it yet. Good quality for what it is but extra mags are somewhat hard to find at a price that wont give you a stroke.

XT 22 Magnum - 22 Magnum | Armscor International, Inc

I must have gotten extremely lucky as my PMR30 eats anything i put in it.

I did find some of these while perusing the ammo isle. They reduced my shot pattern by [at least] half of what i can shoot with 30gr.

Federal Champion 22 WMR Ammo 50 Grain BYOB Copper Jacketed Hollow Point

I still want a XT22m.....

Keep the reports coming!

 

[deadeye]

I must have gotten extremely lucky as my PMR30 eats anything i put in it.

I did find some of these while perusing the ammo isle. They reduced my shot pattern by [at least] half of what i can shoot with 30gr.

Federal Champion 22 WMR Ammo 50 Grain BYOB Copper Jacketed Hollow Point

I still want a XT22m.....

Keep the reports coming!

I didn't shoot the PMR just going by what others have noticed Had my son run it for function with CCI and it worked fine. I didn't care for the mag release on the PMR because of my large hands and releasing the mag when gripping it. I wasn't too sure packing it wouldn't do the same accidental release, I wish that they had used a standard button release. I found the Rock Island so I gave the PMR away to a relative. The Automag II's I've never had the issue with.

 

[SUPER X]

FYI I was looking at some muzzle energy numbers of 22 mag vs. 22 LR and a 22Mag hornady Vmax 30gr out of a 4" barrel has a muzzle energy of 127 ft. lbs. A 5" barrel has muzzle energy of 171 ft lb.s

The PMR 22Mag pistol has a 4.5" barrel, so if we average the numbers between 4" and 5" we get 149 ft lb of energy at the muzzle.

In contrast, a 22lr CCI stinger has 145 ft lbs out of a 9" barrel (like the one shown in the hk 416 above).

So a 22Mag with a barrel less than 5" isn't much better than a 22lr with a barrel of 9" or longer. It looks like the 5" barrel length is the point where the 22Mag energy sort of falls off a cliff.

Numbers were from ballistics by the inch website BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: Results

Also as a reference point for one of the other guns mentioned above, a 12 gauge slug out of a 20" barrel produces roughly 2300 ft. lbs

There is some very hot 22 LR loads that compare to 22 mag . CCI stingers are advertised at 1600 fps . for example . aguila has many load options and bullet weight choices