.22 for SD. My own little study.....for what it's worth.

[JackD]

I notice you are carefully ignoring the fact that a compact .380acp like the Ruger LCP or a Keltec P3AT can and will go anywhere a .22LR will. I am not sure why.

So far as concealment, I conceal my Glock 27 under a heavy Carhardtt t-shirt all the time without problem. It was equally easy to conceal my 3" Ruger SP101. I think you have wrongly convinced yourself you cannot conceal a compact full-caliber pistol or revolver in normal summer clothing. I think if you ask around, you will find that most of us here do exactly that regularly every summer.

You also cling to the obviously false argument that you can somehow predict how much gun you will need. You figure you will 'probably' never face a drugged-up addict. I guess you also figure you will never face a herd of gang members, though gangs have spread far and wide into rural areas. So you seem to think that the only assailants you will face can be dealt with by a .22LR round or three, and that will surely stop the attack cold in its tracks. That is wishful thinking of the most dangerous sort.

You are, of course, free to chose what you want to carry. But your arguments for doing so just do not hold water.

But I did talk about the LCP. I quote myself.

"True. A LCP would be a better choice for a pocket pistol, but it would have cost me $300 to fire the 1000 rounds that I've fired this past two weeks in the .22's. And that cost me just $34.09. I have a 50' range in my shop so practice is not a problem. Money is."

I chose something that I can shoot well, inexpensively, and often. If I ever had to face a "herd of gang members" in my neighborhood, it would likely be in or on my own property...and there, I am well armed. We live on a paved country road with lots of traffic, so we don't walk there. We walk on one of two dead-end roads and we are friends with all the neighbors that live on these two roads. These roads are only 1/2 mile long and I don't believe any one the neighbors would turn us away in a time of need. And I seriously doubt that need would be to escape a herd of gang members. At least, I hope not. While camping, I alway have most, if not all, of my weapons with me, including rifle(s). Hiking, I carry the .357 on my hip and, now, the PT22 or SR22 along with it in a pocket. The ONLY time the .22 pocket pistol will be my primary CC gun will be on those casual trips to the market, or hardware store or on our daily walks or??? Slip it in the pocket and go.

I just don't feel a need to carry a hand cannon at all times. Most people will run from a bumble bee and a .22LR Stinger will hurt a lot worse. In those 98 cases, even a BB gun stopped an attack on the boys mother and he ended up in the hospital to get the BB's taken out of his face. If those were .22LR instead of BB's, they would have been plugging holes to make him look better at his funeral.

This target is 4" x6", fired from 21 feet, 27 rounds (25 hits) 3X(8+1), 5-6 seconds/mag. Fired from the Taurus PT22. If a head is visable, I can hit it at this range or closer. Of this I am confident. And I'm getting better with practice. From this range, I can frequently (not always) put all rounds in a 4" square as fast as I can line up the sights and fire....less than one second/shot. I realize there is no panic involved here, but with my home range and lots of cheap ammo, hopefully it will become second nature. At the very least I will enjoy my times on the range.

 

[jonn5335]

I understand the concealability attraction of a .22. Nobody discounts their potential lethality since so many people have been killed with .22's.

However, imagine a scenario where you might have to pull your weapon. Picture a 200 lb man bearing down on you with a baseball bat. Imagine a gang of thugs surrounding you with knives. At that point, will a .22 inspire confidence? Yes, it is better than no weapon or a sharp stick. But I don't believe it is better than a .38, 9mm or .45. Plus there is something to be said for the psychological impact of staring down a .22 barrell compared to a .357!

With all the carry platforms available today I just can't see a good reason for carrying that small a caliber.

1. I don't think I'd ever have a 200lb man bearing down at me seeing as how I'd still be bigger than him and even if he does have a baseball bat and I hypothetically shove a pistol in his face because I felt my life was in danger I don't think he would be looking down the bore of my pistol thinking AHHH it's just a 22
2. I tend not to hang out in places where I might be robbed at knife point by a gang of thugs call me a redneck call me a hick or even a country boy but I just cant see a gang of thugs coming out in my neck of the woods if you know what I mean.
obviously there is great advantage in use of a .38,9mm,357 in terms of energy/knock down power or whatever your flavor may be over a 22 but yes I would be very confident in carrying a 22 or one of my 9mms or my 44 mag do you really think if a gang of thugs is robbing you at knife point and you pull out a 22 they are going to still going to try to stick you with a knife especially if you've already hit one of their fellow thugs? odds are they would be running back to whatever dark alley they crawled out of

 

[JackD]

Friends dont let friends carry mouseguns.

Yes you can kill someone just as dead with a .22, but in most cases its going to take them a lot longer to bleed out and in that span of time they can still do a lot of damage, particularly if they are psychotic or on drugs.

There are enough compact, airweight guns out there in effective calibers that I just dont see where a .22 fits in any more.

If I have to shoot someone, I don't necessarily want to kill them. I just want them to go away. No more. No less.

This article played a large part in my decision to get a .22LR for CC.

.22 LR for Self-Defense? | Shooting Illustrated

 

[Blitzkrieg]

.22 LR has a 25% to 30 % one shot stop rate.. if you feel comfortable with taking incoming rounds by all means carry one

 

[Blitzkrieg]

If I have to shoot someone, I don't necessarily want to kill them. I just want them to go away. No more. No less.

This article played a large part in my decision to get a .22LR for CC.

.22 LR for Self-Defense? | Shooting Illustrated

This is delusional.. stopping power is not killiing power. But if you lack the will to kill in self defense leave the gun at home

 

[mjbskwim]

I have carried a 22.From 10 feet away I can place the shots pretty critically.
No recoil to worry about.easy to shoot.

Now,most situations will be about 2.5 shots? (isn't that still the average if you leave out the drive bys?)
Now if you shoot the 22 very accurately,then you can stop the threat..............unless he has a couple 8 balls of drugs in him.
Then all bets are off.
You may be able to stop the electricity with a few head shots.But a heavy caliber at least pushes the body back.Gives you that split second to move out of reach.

If you look at the tests and shoot out statistics,a 22 is fine. A .223 that is.
Even that can be marginal for a quick kill if drugs are involved (see Somalia)

In my neighborhood,a 22 may be OK. But when I go to Tacoma?
The 45 is always with me.

 

[Pandaz3]

The only concealed carry size guns I have are a Taurus small frame .357 5 shooter that I have never carried and a much lighter S&W J frame in .22 WMR, it is a seven shooter. So light I forget I have it, easy to use front fiber optic sight and I seem to be able to shoot it accurately. Oh I am accurate enough with the Taurus too. I am looking to buy a Charter Arms Bulldog or Pitbull though. The idea of a caliber that starts with 4 appeals to me. Just way more mass on target.

 

[mjbskwim]

If I have to shoot someone, I don't necessarily want to kill them. I just want them to go away. No more. No less.

This article played a large part in my decision to get a .22LR for CC.

.22 LR for Self-Defense? | Shooting Illustrated

IF
IPHF ,to make it a 4 letter word

If you have some delinquent kids or street people around,then yes,the 22 will work fine. Makes the simpleton make a decision.

Now if you are accosted by some real bad A$$ drugged out POS,then he will laugh at your 22.
Big bores make big impressions.

But as Blitz says,if you are even thinking of 'just stopping' someone and not understanding that you may need to kill someone.Or know that your shooting may kill someone,you shouldn't carry.
Call it what you want,but when you pull a gun,you need to understand that somebody may die.
If this is a problem,do not carry.
They will take your gun and kill you and your family.Then take all the rest of your guns.

 

[Ought Six]

I have carried a 22.From 10 feet away I can place the shots pretty critically.
No recoil to worry about.easy to shoot.

When you are being rushed by a large, enraged assailant, and there is a ton of adrenaline pumping through your veins, I wonder how precise your shot placement would be then?
----------

Now,most situations will be about 2.5 shots? (isn't that still the average if you leave out the drive bys?)

No, that the average for LEO encounters with criminals. It has nothing to do with civilian encounters with criminals. And carrying something that would only be adequate in an average encounter would be a very bad strategy.
----------

Now if you shoot the 22 very accurately,then you can stop the threat..............unless he has a couple 8 balls of drugs in him. Then all bets are off.

You simply cannot say any handgun will stop the threat. They are not magic death rays. Even a .45 is not going to be 100% effective with good shot placement. The best you can do is to shift the odds to your side as much as possible. Carrying a .22 shift the odds in favor of the bad guys.
----------

You may be able to stop the electricity with a few head shots.But a heavy caliber at least pushes the body back.Gives you that split second to move out of reach.

If you seriously think that you are going to be able to score "a few head shots" when being rushed by an assailant, with all due respect, you are a bit delusional.
----------

If you look at the tests and shoot out statistics,a 22 is fine. A .223 that is. Even that can be marginal for a quick kill if drugs are involved (see Somalia)

Again, carry the most powerful handgun you can conceal and shoot well.
----------

In my neighborhood,a 22 may be OK. But when I go to Tacoma? The 45 is always with me.

Once again, assuming that a tiny caliber is okay in some neighborhoods is ridiculous. If you are in a situation where you must draw and fire your weapon, you are in a fight for your very life. To say a weapon with so little stopping power is okay just because it is a nicer neighborhood is completely nonsensical.

 

[tacwash]

Thanks Jack, That is good info. I printed it out to share with others. GREAT WORK. Appreciate it. The motto at Front Sight is " ANY gun will do if YOU will do. "

 

[metalhead68]

It was a .38 S&W "J" frame that I got rid of. I was reloading for .38's and .357's and it became a nuisance to keep brass separated and the "J" frame revolver was not much fun to shoot. After several rounds, my hands became sore, so it was put aside and rarely fired. The SP101 is really not much fun either, for the same reasons.....although not too bad with reloads of ~3 gr. of Trailboss. Even reloading, it is still not cheap to practice with. Both of my sons have LCR's. One a .38 spl. and the other the .357 mag. I've fired them both and neither are any more fun to shoot then the "J" frame was. After awhile, it just hurt. My wrist would ache for hours after. "Arthur Itus" may have some say about that. Maybe someday, I'll find a good LCR, but if I do, it will be the .357 version so I don't need to keep cases separated.

But realistically, I'm in far more danger of being killed in an auto accident or dying of old age than I am of facing a crazed drug addict. And no caliber of gun can help me there. It's in my home that I feel most vulnerable....and I believe I'm well protected there.....even in the "motor" home. A .22 should do nicely in the rare event that I should have a need outside the home....and that need is more likely be to protect us against vicious dogs or rabid wildlife (we live in the country).

Two of my co-workers, in the past, had home invasions. One ran out the back door when his daughter started screaming in the middle of the night. And the other grabbed a golf club and cold cocked one guy as his cohort ran away. This one made the news locally (many years ago). Neither had agun, but as it turned out, none were needed.

I didnt know that shooting the LCR hurt your wrist but if it did why on earth would you want to buy one in
.357 magnum. I remember shooting Tims after he bought and brought it down. I like shooting large calibers handguns but that one seemed like too much in a small frame. Im pretty happy with the little .38 LCR and I think the .38 +P is very effective and still doesnt have a great deal of kick. Maybe should rethink this and instead of selling me your .38 brass you should trade your SP101 for a .38 LCR with Crimson trace and then just load .38 you could still sell me your second set of dies. Just something to think about Dad.

 

[Ought Six]

Thanks Jack, That is good info. I printed it out to share with others. GREAT WORK. Appreciate it. The motto at Front Sight is " ANY gun will do if YOU will do. "

So then why not carry a pellet gun? Modern pellet guns can penetrate the rib cage, and apparently stopping power does not matter much; right?

 

[metalhead68]

I didnt know that shooting the LCR hurt your wrist but if it did why on earth would you want to buy one in
.357 magnum. I remember shooting Tims after he bought and brought it down. I like shooting large calibers handguns but that one seemed like too much in a small frame. Im pretty happy with the little .38 LCR and I think the .38 +P is very effective and still doesnt have a great deal of kick. Maybe should rethink this and instead of selling me your .38 brass you should trade your SP101 for a .38 LCR with Crimson trace and then just load .38 you could still sell me your second set of dies. Just something to think about Dad.

 

[JackD]

IF
IPHF ,to make it a 4 letter word

If you have some delinquent kids or street people around,then yes,the 22 will work fine. Makes the simpleton make a decision.

Now if you are accosted by some real bad A$$ drugged out POS,then he will laugh at your 22.
Big bores make big impressions.

But as Blitz says,if you are even thinking of 'just stopping' someone and not understanding that you may need to kill someone.Or know that your shooting may kill someone,you shouldn't carry.
Call it what you want,but when you pull a gun,you need to understand that somebody may die.
If this is a problem,do not carry.
They will take your gun and kill you and your family.Then take all the rest of your guns.

In Oregon we take a class before we get a CC license. In that class we are told to shoot to STOP THE THREAT and NO MORE. Any more than that could put us in prison. If that kills someone, so be it. But my intention is to stop the threat. Not to kill.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

It was a .38 S&W "J" frame that I got rid of. I was reloading for .38's and .357's and it became a nuisance to keep brass separated and the "J" frame revolver was not much fun to shoot. After several rounds, my hands became sore, so it was put aside and rarely fired. The SP101 is really not much fun either, for the same reasons.....although not too bad with reloads of ~3 gr. of Trailboss. Even reloading, it is still not cheap to practice with. Both of my sons have LCR's. One a .38 spl. and the other the .357 mag. I've fired them both and neither are any more fun to shoot then the "J" frame was. After awhile, it just hurt. My wrist would ache for hours after. "Arthur Itus" may have some say about that. Maybe someday, I'll find a good LCR, but if I do, it will be the .357 version so I don't need to keep cases separated.

But realistically, I'm in far more danger of being killed in an auto accident or dying of old age than I am of facing a crazed drug addict. And no caliber of gun can help me there. It's in my home that I feel most vulnerable....and I believe I'm well protected there.....even in the "motor" home. A .22 should do nicely in the rare event that I should have a need outside the home....and that need is more likely be to protect us against vicious dogs or rabid wildlife (we live in the country).

Two of my co-workers, in the past, had home invasions. One ran out the back door when his daughter started screaming in the middle of the night. And the other grabbed a golf club and cold cocked one guy as his cohort ran away. This one made the news locally (many years ago). Neither had agun, but as it turned out, none were needed.

This says it all.. separating brass a nuisance? Poor baby

BTW I have drawn a .22 on a pack of would be rapists (threatened my sister and wife with gang rape) who were indeed high and drunk. It nearly got me beat to death except one was more sober than the most crazy and drug the nut off my driver's door

I only had the .22 in a pocket because my .357 magnum was left in the girl's car in my backpack, I was helping my sister move. I never ever again had only a .22 on me and in fact never carried a .22 again

 

[Blitzkrieg]

In Oregon we take a class before we get a CC license. In that class we are told to shoot to STOP THE THREAT and NO MORE. Any more than that could put us in prison. If that kills someone, so be it. But my intention is to stop the threat. Not to kill.

Yes because .22 LR never kills anyone

 

[coop44]

In the small chance I may have to shoot someone, anything will suffice. Within that small chance, once being shot, in the vast majority of cases an aggressor will cease their assault.

The .22 is a viable self defense weapon, also pretty handy for assasinations.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

In the small chance I may have to shoot someone, anything will suffice. Within that small chance, once being shot, in the vast majority of cases an aggressor will cease their assault.

The .22 is a viable self defense weapon, also pretty handy for assasinations.

Um, no this is not true.. most people shot with a .22 LR continue doing what they were doing before they were shot

 

[JackD]

Yes because .22 LR never kills anyone

No. Because every bullet comes with a lawyer attached. You never, never, never say your intent was to kill. Especially in print. Everything you say can be used against you. Our class leaned heavily on the law and your responsibilities within that law. Then there's the civil liability. Legally, you can shoot to stop a threat and that is all you can do. And frankly, killing someone is something nobody really wants to live with. When the threat is over, my gun stops firing. Empty or not.

 

[JackD]

Um, no this is not true.. most people shot with a .22 LR continue doing what they were doing before they were shot

What's your source for that little bit of info? Everything I've read says the opposite. My own little study, even though limited, shows that 55% fled the scene when a gun was produced and no mention of any of them stopping to ask what caliber the gun was. Also in my little study, of those known to have faced a .25, or a .22LR, 4 fled and two died on the scene. I include the .25 since it is similar in power to the .22. Of those shot with the .22, none survived to continue the attack.