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.22 for SD. My own little study.....for what it's worth.

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by JackD, Jun 9, 2012.

  1. JackD

    JackD Elmira, OR Active Member

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    I've read a few threads about the pros and (mostly) cons of using a .22 LR for self defense and concealed carry. I recently ditched my .38 in favor of the .22 pistol for CC much to the chagrin of some that I mentioned it to. Wondering what the statistics show, but not knowing where to find such statistics, I did my own very little study. My source was The Armed Citizen in the American Rifleman. I accumluated data from past issues at random and put them into a chart.

    For what it's worth, here is the chart.

    http://www.hmds.ws/Pics/Armed Citizen.pdf
     
  2. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    At least make it a .22WMR!
     
  3. coctailer

    coctailer Portland, OR/Hastings, MI/Vancouver,WA I run with scissors.

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    Choosing a gun for personal protection is a personal choice.
    Some will say "this caliber is bad, this caliber is good"
    Doesn't matter to me. If .22 fits your lifestyle, then it is the correct choice.
     
  4. Wildcat

    Wildcat Molalla Member

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    A .22 is a lot better than nothing. One of my favorite CC is a .22 mag.
     
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  5. Ought Six

    Ought Six Snoqualmie Valley area Active Member

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    A .22LR requires much more skill in shot placement. A solid hit anywhere in the center of the torso is usually enough with a larger caliber, but not necessarily with a .22. I like to take every little edge I can get in a fight for my own survival, and so I carry the most powerful caliber weapon I can conceal and shoot well. I think that is a sensible philosophy.
     
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  6. Bill Siegle

    Bill Siegle Oregon Active Member

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    1st rule:have a gun. If you can put rounds where they need to be to be effective, caliber isn't gonna matter much to your target. The 22lr is something I surely wouldn't want coming my way. I carry a 22 myself on occasion, and never feel under gunned.
     
  7. jonn5335

    jonn5335 Longview Active Member

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    A 22 beats a sharp stick any day of the week in my book :twocents:
     
  8. SteelyDan

    SteelyDan Junction City Active Member

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    I understand the concealability attraction of a .22. Nobody discounts their potential lethality since so many people have been killed with .22's.

    However, imagine a scenario where you might have to pull your weapon. Picture a 200 lb man bearing down on you with a baseball bat. Imagine a gang of thugs surrounding you with knives. At that point, will a .22 inspire confidence? Yes, it is better than no weapon or a sharp stick. But I don't believe it is better than a .38, 9mm or .45. Plus there is something to be said for the psychological impact of staring down a .22 barrell compared to a .357!

    With all the carry platforms available today I just can't see a good reason for carrying that small a caliber.
     
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  9. JackD

    JackD Elmira, OR Active Member

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    I should have said that the .22's are not my only available carry guns. I have three. One is SP101, .357. A little large and heavy for my tastes, but I do carry it when I feel the need. It is also my go to gun for home defense, but another .22 is also in a hidden place in my home so that no one can get between me and a loaded gun at home. It is interesting to me that of the 98 cases, 70% were home invasions. I'm well protected there. The .22's just give me options when I'm dressed lightly. The three are the SP101, SR22, Taurus PT22. Both .22's seem to handle any ammo I feed them and even the Taurus rarely jambs. They are fast and accurate. With the .22's, I can usually put a full mag in a 4" square post-it note at 21'. and they are cheap enough to get lots of practice. In the past two weeks, I have put over 1000 rounds through the two .22's. And my shooting shows it. Much improved. I couldn't do that with anything else. I'm just of the opinion that a .22 will get the job done.

    The SP101 and the SR22 both wear lasers and that is a big help in putting the shots on target quickly.
     
  10. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Imagine the tiny chance that you will ever draw your gun. Now imagine the microscopic chance that one of the above mentioned senarios is what your facing.

    I carry a Bauer .25 Auto in my back pocket. In the 22 years I have carried it I have never had a reason to more then have my hand on it. I have never drawn it. In that time I have backed up while someone much angrier then me poked me in the chest. I have turned and walked the other way to avoid what could have been a bad situation. etc.

    BUT I have never felt like I needed a bigger caliber. I figure once those 6 rounds come flying out the end of that lil SOB and I have to put in the second mag. I'll worry if I have enough gun then.

    I DON"T WANT TO HAVE TO SHOOT SOME ONE THATS NOT MY PLAN. If I have to I have to but I'd rather make my fat 54 year old arse run 10 blocks to get away then have to find out if my .25ACP is enough. I have nothing to prove.
     
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  11. soberups

    soberups Newberg Well-Known Member

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    Friends dont let friends carry mouseguns.

    Yes you can kill someone just as dead with a .22, but in most cases its going to take them a lot longer to bleed out and in that span of time they can still do a lot of damage, particularly if they are psychotic or on drugs.

    There are enough compact, airweight guns out there in effective calibers that I just dont see where a .22 fits in any more.
     
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  12. Ought Six

    Ought Six Snoqualmie Valley area Active Member

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    The idea that you can guess what you will need when, and that a .22 will be perfectly adequate in any situation smacks of self-delusion. I can fit my Ruger LCP .380acp with its LASER module anywhere you can carry just about any .22LR, and the Ruger is easy to shoot well. I am still just not seeing the case for a .22 in most circumstances.
     
  13. biggie24420

    biggie24420 Beaverton Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Personally I wouldn't trust a rimfire to protect my life with but it's your choice and your life.
     
  14. JackD

    JackD Elmira, OR Active Member

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    I think it depends on an individuals lifestyle and circumstances at any given moment. I'm in my 70's and can't remember a time when a gun was actually needed for my protection. There was a time when I wished I had one (but didn't), but even then it would not have been used. The intruder left when he found the doors locked.

    There was a time, as my mother tells the story, when my dad was drafted during WWII. I was 2YO and my brother, 6 mo's. Shortly after my dad left for boot camp, a man was standing at the window watching my mom. She went into the bedroom and got out dad's .22 rifle. Sat on the couch and wiped it with a rag as though cleaning it. Peeping Tom left the scene.

    I feel most vulnerable in my home. And perhaps, traveling. In those instances, I always have the .357 handy as well as the .22's. Traveling, the little .22 pocket pistol will be in my pocket while the .357 is nearby in the vehicle. Camping and hiking calls for the .357. Just going to the store for some beans? The .22 pocket pistol will be adequate. Nobody wants to get shot for pocket change.

    So I guess I'll have to disagree that you need to carry a larger cal. all the time when circumstances don't call for one.

    So why carry a gun at all? Times have changed over the years. We didn't have to lock our doors back in the day. Hunters used to keep the bear and cougar populations in check (no more). Drug users love to steal and enter home for goodies to sell. That wasn't as big a problem in my earlier years. And some folks like to prey on us older citizens.
     
  15. SteelyDan

    SteelyDan Junction City Active Member

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    JackD, I think you disproved your own case. How can you say what caliber a circumstance would call for? It's pretty hard to decide you need a larger caliber when a meth head is bearing down on you with a knife! That's like saying a box of baking soda will suffice for a fire extinguisher since most fires are small!

    Also, you reference drug users and preying on older citizens. In earlier days you would have had speed and agility on your side, obviously at your age you need every advantage you can get. If father, in his late 70's, was carrying anything less than a 9mm I would have definite concern.
     
  16. JackD

    JackD Elmira, OR Active Member

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    In all my years, I've never seen a meth head with a knife (or without). I doubt I ever will be in that situation......but it is something I think about. I've heard stories about police officers having to empty their handguns in them and they still didn't stop coming. Where would I likely be if that happened? Probably in my own home....and I'm well armed at home and in my vehicle and sometimes outside my vehicle....depending on things like dress. At home, I also have rifles...and a rifle beats a handgun anytime.

    I believe it is impossible to be prepared for all possible scenarios. Carrying a .22 in my pocket is far better than leaving my .38 behind because I can't hide it under my T shirt. It was left behind far too often becasue I couldn't hide it well enough. True. A LCP would be a better choice for a pocket pistol, but it would have cost me $300 to fire the 1000 rounds that I've fired this past two weeks in the .22's. And that cost me just $34.09. I have a 50' range in my shop so practice is not a problem. Money is. Practice makes perfect and I can do a lot more practicing, with the actual pistol I carry, for far less $$$ with a .22 than any other caliber. And that weighed heavily in my decision to get a .22LR for CC. And, as I said, I do have the SP101, .357 when I feel the need.
     
  17. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot Clack Co. OR Well-Known Member

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    Count me as another poster that went the other way. I want the most power in the smallest size.

    If it's the size advantage there are many higher powered pistols smaller than that Taurus like my Kahr PM40 and LCP.

    For truly tiny mouseguns there are like sized 32s and 380s also. The 22LR in the middle is for practice only, it has grips that make it feel like the 380 now. The Seecamp 32 doesn't get shot much anymore.

    380  22LR  32ACP.jpg

    That little 380 on the left cost $300 including shipping and transfer fees. A couple hundred dollars is cheap life insurance IMO.

    380  22LR  32ACP.jpg
     
  18. soberups

    soberups Newberg Well-Known Member

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    So keep practicing with the .22's but stick a Ruger LCR airweight .38+P in that pocket. The gun weighs only 14 ounces and with a Galco holster it conceals easily in a front pocket. Its the perfect home/away companion piece to your SP101, your .38+P ammo can be used in either revolver and they both function identically. If you ever find yourself in a situation where you actually need a gun for protection, you will be glad you have an effective service-caliber revolver in your hand instead of a .22.
     
  19. JackD

    JackD Elmira, OR Active Member

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    It was a .38 S&W "J" frame that I got rid of. I was reloading for .38's and .357's and it became a nuisance to keep brass separated and the "J" frame revolver was not much fun to shoot. After several rounds, my hands became sore, so it was put aside and rarely fired. The SP101 is really not much fun either, for the same reasons.....although not too bad with reloads of ~3 gr. of Trailboss. Even reloading, it is still not cheap to practice with. Both of my sons have LCR's. One a .38 spl. and the other the .357 mag. I've fired them both and neither are any more fun to shoot then the "J" frame was. After awhile, it just hurt. My wrist would ache for hours after. "Arthur Itus" may have some say about that. :) Maybe someday, I'll find a good LCR, but if I do, it will be the .357 version so I don't need to keep cases separated.

    But realistically, I'm in far more danger of being killed in an auto accident or dying of old age than I am of facing a crazed drug addict. And no caliber of gun can help me there. It's in my home that I feel most vulnerable....and I believe I'm well protected there.....even in the "motor" home. A .22 should do nicely in the rare event that I should have a need outside the home....and that need is more likely be to protect us against vicious dogs or rabid wildlife (we live in the country).

    Two of my co-workers, in the past, had home invasions. One ran out the back door when his daughter started screaming in the middle of the night. And the other grabbed a golf club and cold cocked one guy as his cohort ran away. This one made the news locally (many years ago). Neither had agun, but as it turned out, none were needed.
     
  20. Ought Six

    Ought Six Snoqualmie Valley area Active Member

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    I notice you are carefully ignoring the fact that a compact .380acp like the Ruger LCP or a Keltec P3AT can and will go anywhere a .22LR will. I am not sure why.

    So far as concealment, I conceal my Glock 27 under a heavy Carhardtt t-shirt all the time without problem. It was equally easy to conceal my 3" Ruger SP101. I think you have wrongly convinced yourself you cannot conceal a compact full-caliber pistol or revolver in normal summer clothing. I think if you ask around, you will find that most of us here do exactly that regularly every summer.

    You also cling to the obviously false argument that you can somehow predict how much gun you will need. You figure you will 'probably' never face a drugged-up addict. I guess you also figure you will never face a herd of gang members, though gangs have spread far and wide into rural areas. So you seem to think that the only assailants you will face can be dealt with by a .22LR round or three, and that will surely stop the attack cold in its tracks. That is wishful thinking of the most dangerous sort.

    You are, of course, free to chose what you want to carry. But your arguments for doing so just do not hold water.