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.22 ammo? Enough is enough. Why can't we figure it out?

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Inspectorkluso, Jan 20, 2015.

  1. Inspectorkluso

    Inspectorkluso West Linn, Oregon New Member

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    I truly believe that firearm owners are the last hope in this crazy world. Most people that I have met in the firearm world are innovative, intelligent, patriotic and self-reliant. Why then...haven't we as firearm owners done something to address the .22 ammunition shortage? Is .22 ammunition so technical that it can't be made by anyone but the large ammunition companies? I've seen videos on the process at CCI. Could the cost of the equipment and raw materials be so high that no one else can break into the business? It seems to me that with the current demand, a company could run 24/7/365 and just keep expanding until the market saturates. Then the "supply and demand" forces would control the market. I think that there is money to be made while keeping this country free. Maybe? Maybe not....
     
    billhilly likes this.
  2. Steve M

    Steve M Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

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    It's not like consumption of 22LR went up, only demand for it. Such artificial demand will eventual cease and when it does there will be a glut of ammo in people's closets that they will use instead buying. Ammo manufacturers are wary of expanding too quickly then getting burned by it.
     
    Stomper, Sstrand, Benchrest and 2 others like this.
  3. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    I agree. Same ole cats making ammo. New shooters and gun manufacturers everyday.

    Sure there are a few new cats making ammo, none that I know of new to making 22.
     
  4. Classic

    Classic Federal Way WA Well-Known Member

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    By not making more, keeping the output the same the big boys get a price increase that the gun buying public seems willing to accept. Until you guys (I dumped my .22 because I cant load for it) quit buying it every time it hits he store shelf when you don't need it it will remain difficult to find.
    Think about it... For the longest time powder and primers were pretty much unobtainium yet lately I've been able to walk into stores and find pistol powder and primers. What happened was that people pretty much have all the powder they need (I have 2 years worth and I shoot 1K+ rounds per month) so the supply is recovering.
    22 has a long way to go because people seem willing to buy brick for $50 at gun shows.:mad:
     
    billhilly, cmica and My 3 sons like this.
  5. Inspectorkluso

    Inspectorkluso West Linn, Oregon New Member

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    Can't argue with your logic!
     
  6. Inspectorkluso

    Inspectorkluso West Linn, Oregon New Member

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    I hope that you right!
     
  7. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    Consumption of .22 LR has probably gone down while production has at the very least stayed the same, more likely increased. The problem is people now want 5000 rounds on the shelf rather than a few boxes of 50 because they are scared the self induced shortage.

    The issue with manufacturing it is the up front costs are very high and the payback very slow. It would probably cost a few hundered grand to have a small scale .22LR operation put in place, and that is a small system. Your profit is likely to be on the order on one cent a round. So you need to produce and sell around two billion rounds to recoup your investment. The equipment is far from the only cost. You will have to rent a industrial space, have probably 50 million worth of product liability insurance and pay wages to your employees.

    There is simply not enough money to consider it knowing full well the increased demand is short term and temporary
     
  8. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure that the actual demand has gone down and people are just hoarding. I think the actual demand has also gone up in the past 5-10 years. This adds to the panic buying.

    10 years ago what were your popular choices for .22 guns? 10-22, Ruger Mark x, Buckmark, and piles of misc semi and bolt guns.

    ~5 years ago .22 "clones" started really increasing in popularity. What style of gun CAN'T you get in .22 now. There are 1911's, AK's, MP5's, STG's, AR's, Sig's, Walther's, Uzi, M&P, M1 Carbine, etc. This new found love for .22 has added a huge demand for the ammo. Also suppressor use has seemed to increase a bit as well. One of the popular calibers to shoot is .22.

    I have a couple of dozen .22's, many of them clones since they are a fun and cheep way to shoot. I am glad there will be no shortages in my future.
     
  9. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    Im not saying demand has gone down, I am saying consumption has gone down. There are fewer people shooting .22LR right now simply because it is expensive and elusive. I think once the market stabilizes, which I expect to happen this year, people will be burning up some of that horded ammo.
     
    Nwcid likes this.
  10. SOrez

    SOrez SOR Active Member

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    Palmetto State Armory has 325rd Federal for $26.99. 3 box limit makes it $80 for 975 rds shipped.
     
  11. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    I just stopped shooting the stuff.
    Hardly buy any other than CCI stingers
    (for my 21A)

    Let the fools pay gold for ammo worth pennies. It'll fade.

    Glad all my 9mm and 7.62x39 is abundant again.
     
  12. P7id10T

    P7id10T Cedar Hills Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I bought a bunch of 22 bonus packs (550) for ~$15 each back in 2010. I just don't shoot .22LR so they mostly sit. When you consider what I paid for the materials, it costs me < 12¢ for .223, and < 8¢ for my 9mm and 40S&W. The thought of paying 8¢ for a round of .22LR just makes me shake my head.

    I've thought about the market for making 22 ammo. I don't believe there is enough margin in it to make it a worthy business venture considering the risks and liabilities.
     
  13. Martini_Up

    Martini_Up NW USA Well-Known Member

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    As a few say above - I too have just stopped shooting it altogether; either can't find it or when I do it's stooopid expensive. Forget it. Let the hoarders buy it all up. I'll shoot .177 air rifles or x54r. Those never run out. :D
     
  14. pdrake

    pdrake WA Active Member

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    "Unobtainium." That's great, Classic. :)
     
  15. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    I agree and can verify this. Living in a rural area on the edge of the NF I used to hear .22 shooting regularly on weekends in the woods nearby and now it's rare. I hear more CF than anything else and even that has slowed down.
     
  16. FOWELKILLER

    FOWELKILLER buckley ,wa Member

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    ya this world has gone mad,just seen in brownells 500rnd box of some 22s made in mexico for $65. if you think im going to buy some sweat shop ammo that isnt even made in america, for the price now compared to 5 years ago you might as well make it a world wide currency.i guarantee you uncle ted aint buying no ammo from mexico.i like a lot of you quit shooting it,unless i take my son out for some guy time.sorry for the rant it just pisses me off that if i want to take my son out and shoot a box of 5oo wildcats which isnt that hard to do when your 8 years old, it costs me more than a fifty dollar bill.i dont know how many peso that is but guarantee they aint $65 down there.people just need to STOP BUYING 22 AMMO for a couple months.but no, every soft hearted scared little city boy is willing to pay what ever the ammo companys want so when the world is coming to an end he can throw 150,000 rounds in his bugout bag for his fancy ar-22 with 8 flashlights and 3 lasers and kill all the zombies.sorry probably a bit off topic but come on people.
     
    U201491 likes this.
  17. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    Hey Fowelkiller stop by my shop and I'll give you a brick of .22LR to take your kid shooting. I am between Enumclaw and Auburn on Hy 164 Shoot me a PM and I'll give you the address, I am there most days and many weekends.
     
  18. Inspectorkluso

    Inspectorkluso West Linn, Oregon New Member

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    Kind of off topic, but I was in Buckley, Washington, last weekend for business. What a beautiful area! You guys up there are certainly fortunate. Keep us Portlanders out!!!
     
    d2the3 likes this.
  19. pdrake

    pdrake WA Active Member

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    Based upon my highly developed sense of observation, I would say that Mr. FowelKiller is really pissed off.
     
  20. Trailboss

    Trailboss Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Hey, I resent that comment. It's a plain ole 10/22 not a fancy ar-22...

    tb
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2015