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2 Day Rifle Clinics on the East Side

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by Kimber Custom, Jul 12, 2016.

  1. Kimber Custom

    Kimber Custom Vancouver, WA Bronze Vendor Bronze Vendor

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    Project Appleseed teaches fundamental rifle marksmanship. You will learn field shooting positions - standing, sitting, kneeling & prone. The 6 steps of firing a shot. How to zero your rifle and build your come up tables. How to build your Natural Point Of Aim. Everything you need to know to engage a 20" target out to 500 yards.

    You will need a rifle and about 400 rounds of ammunition. Anything from a rimfire through 8mm will do. We recommend a semi-automatic with detachable magazine and an adjustable sighting system (scopes are fine). You will also want an adjustable sling like the GI Web sling.

    Upcoming 'dry side' events:

    Lewiston, ID July 23/23: Lewiston, ID Appleseed July 23-24, 2016 (http://www.eventbrite.com/e/lewiston-id-appleseed-july-23-24-2016-tickets-19484693242) Club provides lunch :)

    LaGrande, OR July 30/31: La Grande, OR Appleseed July 30-31, 2016 (http://www.eventbrite.com/e/la-grande-or-appleseed-july-30-31-2016-tickets-22713769496)

    Waitsburg, WA August 27/28: Waitsburg, WA Appleseed August 27-28, 2016 (http://www.eventbrite.com/e/waitsburg-wa-appleseed-august-27-28-2016-tickets-21136628224)

    Supporting members of NWFA have an option for BOGO. PM me for details.

    Lewiston Flyer.jpg LaGrande Flyer.jpg Waitsburg Flyer.jpg
     
  2. Plinker300

    Plinker300 Spokane, WA Member

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    How are the facilities at Waitsburg Gun Club? The wife and I are signed up for the Appleseed there Aug 27/28. Is there a bathroom of some sort? Is there any shade at or near the firing line? We nearly burned up at Fernan in June. We may bring a shade tent..
     
  3. Kimber Custom

    Kimber Custom Vancouver, WA Bronze Vendor Bronze Vendor

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  4. Plinker300

    Plinker300 Spokane, WA Member

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    Thanks Kimber, we're looking forward to a great weekend! Appleseed is so much fun!
     
    Kimber Custom likes this.
  5. DClevenger

    DClevenger Salem, Oregon New Member

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    I question the validity of any training site or organization that continuously uses institutional training and hand me down training within their organization or when certifying their instructors.
     
  6. Goosebrown

    Goosebrown Beaverton Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    Then don't go. I know my poop and have been shooting for 35 years and Appleseed was one of the best shooting events of my life and what I learned has helped me shot better every single time I go out.
     
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  7. DClevenger

    DClevenger Salem, Oregon New Member

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    I didn't imply that you didn't. I don't know you. Simply said I question the validity of institutions like theirs. Didn't even say abything derogatory about them. Just that I am skeptical of institutionalize training.
     
  8. Goosebrown

    Goosebrown Beaverton Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    Sure. Like schools and universities. I understand. When people who know what they're doing and get together to teach something the same way, like military instructors do, I question whether or not they know anything too.

    Not.
     
  9. DClevenger

    DClevenger Salem, Oregon New Member

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    That's not what I was referring to.

    There are plenty of institutions in the area that turn around and hire people after they have attended all their training, or certify their instructors in house. That creates a school house that is just regurgitation the same information over and over.

    That's not the way the military does it, not even close. As the training standards are constantly reviewed and revised based on effectiveness and lessons learned through combat theaters. Not to mention the instructors in many courses are constantly changing, come from different background and different combat experiences.

    When a training institution says, "come shoot with us and if we like you we'll make you an instructor" it leaves me skeptical. When someone's instructor bio contains a handful of NRA and DPSST certs that anyone with a couple hundred bucks can go get, then nothing but certifications from the institution that they are a part of, it leaves me skeptical.

    That's all I'm saying.
     
  10. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    First:
    This isn't sold as a combat prep-course. It sets out our American Heritage, the role the American Rifleman plays(ed), and teaches the basic fundamentals of marksmanship that no military has the market on.

    Second:
    So at the end of the day they wind up helping lay-riflemen land rounds in target, you're skeptical.

    Third:
    You must be one unhappy fella with as much disappointment you've been articulating recently.

    Fourth:
    Unless you're raising your hand to step up and volunteer your time to set right these "no-nothing civie pukes", perhaps you should study to just be quiet and keep your doubts (and non-constructive criticisms) to yourself.

    That's all I'm sayin' o_O
     
  11. DClevenger

    DClevenger Salem, Oregon New Member

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    Didn't call anyone a no nothing civie puke. You make a lot of unintelligent baseless assumptions. I'm skeptical of any institution that is going to essentially say "if we like you well make you an instructor."
     
  12. Goosebrown

    Goosebrown Beaverton Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    Yep. We'll make you an instructor after you do the course over and over and take out instructor training course. I know it's like they pick people that know what they're doing and can teach.

    I mean seriously.
     
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  13. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    What's unintelligent is positing a "dog chasing it's own tail" argument (yours), and not suggesting what you perceive as a solution. You're coming off as the type who just likes to state a perceived negative and argue for the sake of arguing. It's what online trolls tend to do...... boring! :rolleyes:
     
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  14. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    What are you even talking about?
    Personally, I wouldn't make anybody an instructor I didn't like. I wouldn't care if the swingin' dick was Rambo incarnate.
    Particularly, a candidate should be capable, personable, and able to effect the course curriculum in a safe and effective manner.
    Also, this is an Appleseed event.. not some high-speed-low-drag wannabe fest.
     
  15. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    I wanna be, was been. ;)
     
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  16. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    It sounds you got vetted, you ball-less wonder.





















    just kidding!
     
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  17. rcnpthfndr

    rcnpthfndr E. Washington New Member

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    Not even close. when a NCO tasks a young soldier PFC/SPC to give a class. that kid follows doctrine and the appropriate ADP, ADRP FM's and TM's. That young soldier doesn't have any operational knowledge for the most part. that NCO is going to make him follow doctrine and at the very end he might add some "TTP's he used at the end of it. For the most part the bulk of the combat experience has left the military.
    At a school house you teach doctrinal based cause that's a quantified standard and a common ground for all. The military adds stuff but only after its been vetted through the ringer and can improve the period of instruction. you just cant walk in and change the institution with the good idea fairy riding on your shoulders.
    all the TTP's and lessons learned is collected by the Center for Army Lessons Learned (CALL) that's not doctrine.

    the army is nothing but regurgitation of institutional knowledge. Now, the Tier 1 guys they do things differently and don't reflect what goes on in the conventional forces
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2016
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  18. Kimber Custom

    Kimber Custom Vancouver, WA Bronze Vendor Bronze Vendor

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    You are correct sir - not all instructors (nor courses) are created equal.

    RWVA teaches to a 4MOA standard using techniques taught in the 30's and 40's by the military. You can search M1Garand 1941 on youtube and see 80% of what we teach. We do not purport that what we teach is the only way to do it. We don't even purport it to be the best way to do it. The skills we teach are tools for your range bag to use as you see fit. I frequently teach 2 methods to standing - the Appleseed way (nothing wrong with it) and a better way (build the stack). Take the things that work for you and leave what doesn't.

    I can tell you that our 25m AQT is more challenging than you think. People look at our target and want to do it with their pistols. GLWT

    I frequently instruct that what we are teaching is simple - not easy. The mechanics of marksmanship can be explained in ~20min. Putting it all together takes a lot of effort and persistence on behalf of the shooter.

    As for our vetting process for new volunteers. First - we ask they participate in at least 2 events as a shooter first. We want them to really understand that the marksmanship aspect is secondary.

    Next we ask them to be Riflemen; 210 out of 250 on our AQT. Eating our own dog food if you will.

    Then they must go through 4 levels of on the job training (IIT0-4) before they become a full instructor. It is the duty of more experienced instructors to coach new instructors and maintain a high degree of quality control before someone is pronounced a full instructor (red hat).

    But again, not all instructors are created equal. Some put more effort an energy into the program than others. Some will do things to make them better instructors like practice, watch videos, read books or take other courses. What is unique about RWVA instructors is we are all volunteers. When you are passionate about doing something like this as a volunteer you find yourself doing more to make yourself a better instructor.

    All in all - our program hits some tremendous marks. We get people to the line that may or may not have ever shot before. We awaken them to their heritage as Rifleman and more importantly as Americans. We push people physically and mentally.

    You want to know if your 'battle rifle' is worthy? Bring it to an Appleseed and put 400 intentional rounds through it.

    The fundamentals are the fundamentals. 25m-500y - 6 steps, NPOA, Steady Hold Factors.

    I wish more people would understand the quality we provide for such a low cost. We are far from a women and kids .22 shooting club. You want to drop $250-$1000 on a combat course - fine. Just make sure you spend $60 with us first so you know the core material before you show up to one of those courses.

    Hope to see you on the line.
     
  19. IheartSig

    IheartSig Beaverton Diamond Supporter Diamond Supporter Platinum Supporter

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    Anyone who can't find value from a Project Appleseed course, even as a refresher course to check fundamentals, is not training correctly. Every shot is training (or it should be). Every shot is a chance to hone skills, practice fundamentals of marksmanship. Every shot counts if you are open to learning.
     
  20. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I've only been to one two day course, but it was definitely worth the price of admission (and ammo!). What I really enjoyed was the one day KD Qualifier and will do it again when possible. I just missed one, but it conflicted with my daughter's wedding, and we know I'd be in deep doo doo if I missed that.
    I believe the concerns about who is an instructor are needless. Everyone there was genuinely interested in making each shooter improve.
    FYI, I've been shooting for darn near (too near) 50 years and do a decent job of pulling the trigger. I learned a lot and had a hoot doing it.
    I'd suggest that anyone interested sign up, pays the bill and go shoot. It IS worthwhile.