Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

1st venture into loading .223 HOLY COW the brass oal is all ove the place

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Throckmorton, Mar 3, 2011.

  1. Throckmorton

    Throckmorton Florence,Ore ah gone Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,375
    Likes Received:
    169
    Just bought some used brass,threw away the badly dinged ones...lots of them :(.. theyv'e been sized/deprimed,in checking the overall lengths they are .030 shorter than trim-to length.:huh:

    since I'll be shooting them in a single shot rifle I may just sort them into batches for experimentation.Keep the ones that group,etc.

    so my ?? is..do .223/.5.56 brass vary this freaking much ?
    In my thinking,plus or minus .005 is acceptable for plinking ammo,plus or minus .030 just isn't.

    your thoughts ??
     
  2. Shooter98

    Shooter98 McMinnville, Or. Member

    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    18
    Don't worry about them being too short. Trim to length is what you do after you've fired them and check the length and it's too long. I have 25-06 brass brand new out of the bag that's nearly a 1/4" off of max length, but after firing them once or twice they stretch and will need to be trimmed. I have found that I usually only have to trim if I am running a fairly hot load but if I keep the load in the middle or lower I usually never have to trim. You want to make sure though you're max. oal is never exceeded!
     
  3. Throckmorton

    Throckmorton Florence,Ore ah gone Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,375
    Likes Received:
    169
    but,these have been fired and sized and are WAY below trim to length,which affects case capacity,and there for ignition properties,no ?

    I know I can shoot them,just wish they were closer to min/max specs,not a 'foot' short.
    thanks for the reply
     
  4. Shooter98

    Shooter98 McMinnville, Or. Member

    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    18
    Well, excuse the ignorant question but are you sure they were sized correctly? If so, then this wouldn't be an issue. I'd assume someone either used the wrong sizer, or they didn't have their calipers set correctly. Along with that, what are you using to gauge the length of the brass and have you measured from the shoulders of the brass to the base? That will tell you if the neck is too short or if the case itself is too short.
     
  5. toolfan

    toolfan North Portland Member

    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    2
    No. Case capacity is determined by the OAL and bullet length. The variance in brass length will mean that each case may have a slightly different grip length on the case.

    Generally, varied case lengths causes a headache when crimping, but since you are shooting a single shot, there isn't much reason to crimp.
     
  6. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,801
    Likes Received:
    836
    Toolfan is correct, and I would ask his allowance to clarify: If the seater die is at the same adjustment, using the same bullet, the bullet will take up no more space in a short case than it will in a long case. Hence, same case capacity is the result. If these are all the same brand case, and purportedly all once fired and all full-length sized in the same equipment, I would wonder why they vary so much.
     
  7. elsie

    elsie Way over there on the left Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    618
    Most likely the variation is due to manufacturing if the brass has never been trimmed previously. Sizing the brass will stretch it and make it longer, unless maybe it was done in one of those X style RCBS dies that is supposed to keep it from stretching. I don't think that .030 short will make the brass unusable. It would have to be so short that either it could not hold the bullet properly (or allowed the bullet to move during recoil/cycling) or that it was unable to seal the chamber properly when fired.

    I know that after sizing, some of my brass does not need to be trimmed so some do come from the factory a bit on the short side.


    elsie
     
  8. BillCh

    BillCh Vancouver Active Member

    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    43
    You bought out of spec brass!
    My thoughts are, this is the wrong way for you to get into loading anything for the first time. I would never recommend someone use out of spec brass for reloading. Just because Joe-Bubba can load this up and make it go bang doesn't make it right.
    Why not try to do it the right way first?

    This big NO GO for me. It sounds like you bought somebody's junk. The last time I bought once fired brass it was 98% in spec, LC 05 and LC 08, $6 per hundred.
     
  9. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,089
    Likes Received:
    1,310
    Ummm....

    .223 and 5.56 brass are NOT the same! They are close but putting 5.56 in a rifle chambered for .223 can be a big problem. The 5.56 can be loaded to higher pressure and shorter leade than the .223. One gun rag had a good story it, including shots of a correctly loaded 5.56 next to a .223. There was a considerable difference.

    8 former US Presidents have been NRA Members
    80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

    Deen
    NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
    Washington Arms Collector member
    South West Washington Arms Collector member
     
  10. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,674
    Likes Received:
    4,849
    After you sort this out.. learn your lesson and buy 1 x brass with the same headstamp and then deprime, clean, size, measure for OAL, trim if needed for uniformity, chamfer the mouths, then weigh each brass, sorting into categories of weight. Choose the largest batch and try loading test batches of that, first
     
  11. Collateral

    Collateral Monmouth Member

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    8
    When I am loading in bulk for the AR's I will put up with a little grief when using 'foreign' (not from my guns) brass just because I will load so many at a time that new brass would be cost prohibitive. I always full length size them and then use a case gauge to check fit and length, trimming as needed. Then the military/LEO brass needs to be de-crimped. I keep the .556 and .223 separated, and keep the once fired for special projects where I am experimenting with a new powder or bullet weight.
    However, for my bolt action riles I prefer to use once fired brass from my rifle and neck-size the fire formed brass. Any foreign brass is full length sized and trimmed. Once it has been fired by me it goes into the 'neck size only' pile. Headstamp sorting can be controlled by always buying loaded ammo from the same manufacturer. My .243 really likes the cheapest Federal ammo that Bi-Mart sells. The empty's are then neck-sized and trimmed and are ready for use.
    If I were loading for accuracy from a single shot rifle, I would follow this same path.
    My advise would be to re-sell the bag-o-brass and buy loaded ammo on sale. It will not take long to accumulate a pile of once used that takes a minimum of work to turn into accurate ammunition.
     
  12. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,674
    Likes Received:
    4,849
    An alternate route would be to buy new unfired brass, load the cheapest bullet you can find, fire them all and fireform the brass that way
     
  13. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    2,802
    Likes Received:
    1,856
    Depending on where you bought these from, they may not actually be resized, they may just be tumbled. A really common thing when buying certain calibers in "processed brass" is they will be deprimed and cleaned, and maybe trimmed. If you resize them, they will grow, I highly recommend small base sizing for your first time around, and then neck sizing thereafter.
     
  14. toolfan

    toolfan North Portland Member

    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    2
    Reloaded they ARE the same. The internal case dimensions don't vary more than the variation between different head stamps with any other brass.
     
  15. HappyRoman

    HappyRoman Sherwood Forest Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    2,166
    Likes Received:
    120
    WELCOME TO RELOADING...
    The 223 round is somewhat for giving.. Dented cases, when sized may not look pretty, but if no visable crack, will be fireformed when shot.. thus load, save the brass, reinspect, and if all is good, you now have another case to clean and reload.. IF a crack appeared at the dent, place it in you brass recycle bin.. soon you will have 10-15-25- even 50#'s of brass to send to recylcer at somewhere around $2/#. Now you can see the problem, with cleaning and processing 9mm or 40's worth almost as much for junk, no hassle, no whinners, and you got cash.
    Back to the 223, .03 short should not hurt your reloading.. adjust the seating die, to give you a uniform bullet, seated to the cannalure, or slightly long.. you should load 5 or 10 pieces, try them and if all is ok, then Enjoy loading your first ammo can full and your on the way.. Good luck, sandy, just my .02c
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2011