1st time out loading my own 270 and 06

[FishnhuntOR]

I Got a reloading buddy who Wants to deprime. Almost brings a tear to my eye.

 

[Hang-Man]

Might be comparing "apples to oranges" as I shoot/hand load every round of my Browning A Bolt .270WSM. Have tried assorted manufacturers bullets and powders in numerous combinations. My specific rifle is spot on with 130 grain bullets. Any heavier and one or more walks away from the group.
Lighter rounds do not demonstrate as much variety. Killed a large Idaho black bear at 22 yards. Bullet struck dead center heart lung as the bear sat facing me. Nosler 140 grain partition killed the bear. To my amazement there was an entrance hole and no exit wound at all. I explain my experience with my rifle accuracy with 130 grain bullets is guns are like people. People have preferences, likes and dislikes. My rifle is happiest as to tight group accuracy with130 grains. It shoots 160 grains nice enough I can count on accurate hunting shots at all distances. Kill shots on game come from knowing what your rifle is capable of at the gun range before relying on it to make the one shot kill. Enjoy the reloading and work at loading and shooting benches.

The .270 Loves 130 1nd 135 grain bullets, Your WSM would use the 130 Magically as the standard .270 uses the 135 grain Magically, I hunted nearly every animal species in Alaska with the .270, the 135 grain Nosler Partition was my main bullet, anything I hit with it did not move out of its tracks, just fell over.

 

[FishnhuntOR]

My 270 likes the 130 ttsx. So I got the 140s as they are little longer to match the ttsx length.
From couple times out I can push the 140 comfortably at 3000 and my reduced loads at 2800 are very good too.

 

[galvweld]

The .270 Loves 130 1nd 135 grain bullets, Your WSM would use the 130 Magically as the standard .270 uses the 135 grain Magically, I hunted nearly every animal species in Alaska with the .270, the 135 grain Nosler Partition was my main bullet, anything I hit with it did not move out of its tracks, just fell over.

Must have been a different part of Alaska than where bear and moose don't just fall over. Two hundred yard shot to sixty one inch bull moose with .338 right in heart lungs and he walked away as if looking for fresh browse. Shot caused his front feet to leave the ground and his body to rotate about an 1/8th turn. He was dead when found deep in the alters where he just fell over. Brother shot six foot interior grizzly bear with 7mm Remington magnum. Pissed the bear off. It tore a big clump of willows out of the ground. Was moving too quickly for accurate second shot. Found it a little later where it just fell over. I shot a black bear with same caliber at fifty yards. It stood facing me. 160grain bullet went in center line between front legs. Bear traveled a couple hundred yards. Darkness fell. It made the most horrible noises as we crawled through alters with flashlight and .44 magnum. Noises ended before arriving at the place where it just fell over. Stories and claims are pretty much stories and claims till they run up against an animal in a situation where the hunter becomes the hunted. Alaska has free ranging American bison and grant once in a lifetime tags. My 16 year old son drew. I took him to required course for tag holders. Winchester .270 was not on the appropriate caliber list. Matter of fact hunter was required to have a back up shooter. Winchester .270 was not on the approved caliber list.
Two hundred yards heart lung .338 shot a bull trotted away from herd. Seconds later, from other side as bull turned back towards herd a 7mm Remington mag shot put him down. Other stories from eyewitness accounts of Alaska game not falling over after first or second shot but this might be boring or antagonistic. Neither intended.

 

[tac]

Just a note of caution - the term Maximum load is used to denote the maximum safe load of that particular propellant, in the experience of the folks publishing that particular loading data handbook.

It is NOT a challenge.

It IS an advisory that I have always adhered to strongly.

Fifty-four years after I started reloading, I still have all my digits and both eyeballs, and have never - so far - blown up a gun.

tac, just being an old kill-joy.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Two hundred yards heart lung .338 shot a bull trotted away from herd. Seconds later, from other side as bull turned back towards herd a 7mm Remington mag shot put him down. Other stories from eyewitness accounts of Alaska game not falling over after first or second shot but this might be boring or antagonistic. Neither intended.

I find it hard to believe that anyone might still claim any vast superiority of the 7MM RM over the .270Win in terms of killing power.
The notion that a 160gr .284 bullet moving at ~2,900 fps is more than marginally superior to a 150gr .277 bullet moving at ~2,900 fps is ludicrous.
10 grains more mass and .007" more frontal area is what it is. Insignificant.

 

[galvweld]

I find it hard to believe that anyone might still claim any vast superiority of the 7MM RM over the .270Win in terms of killing power.
The notion that a 160gr .284 bullet moving at ~2,900 fps is more than marginally superior to a 150gr .277 bullet moving at ~2,900 fps is ludicrous.
10 grains more mass and .007" more frontal area is what it is. Insignificant.

I don't argue caliber to calibers. My point, animals do not normally "just fall over" from a single round of any caliber. Some do. Most don't. So, you are welcome to debate calibers. Have known associates who killed bigger bucks than mine using a .22 rim fire , aided by truck lights. They made one shot kill. Not even going there. No movement from my premise that a .270 wouldn't be accepted by many professional guides in Alaska in pursuit of bears, bison, or moose.

 

[FishnhuntOR]

Are we saying knock down power is a myth or an idea?
There is a whole thread and 100s of post getting into it on Ifish.
IMO And Personal experience with neck shots, lungs and heart shots and spine shots. Unless you hit some central nervous system , usually the animal won't just drop where it stands.
Anyways.

 

[Jamie6.5]

I don't argue caliber to calibers. My point, animals do not normally "just fall over" from a single round of any caliber. Some do. Most don't. So, you are welcome to debate calibers. Have known associates who killed bigger bucks than mine using a .22 rim fire , aided by truck lights. They made one shot kill. Not even going there. No movement from my premise that a .270 wouldn't be accepted by many professional guides in Alaska in pursuit of bears, bison, or moose.

I've never known a guide to tell somebody they can't shoot the gun they're most proficient with.
And I've known a number of people and heard of a few more that have killed plenty of moose with a .270. Moose have the reputation of being far easier to kill than an elk, and plenty of elk fall every year to the .270W.
I have a number of those of my own.
But that's not my point. Any guide that approves the use of a 7mmRM with 160-170gr class bullets, but doesn't approve of the .270 w/150-160gr bullets is an idiot. There isn't enough difference ballistically to bother with.

And anyone that intentionally goes after the big bears with anything less than a .300WM is an even bigger idiot. Big bear calibers should start at .338 and go up from there, IYAM. But I do know one former Alaskan guide that keeps a .338-06 pump rifle in camp just for self defense.

As far as bison, more buffalo and bison fell to black powder cartridges than modern chamberings. So I'm sure a .270 is plenty.
Most people don't realize it, but the .270W w/150gr bullets @2900 is the ballistic twin of the 300WM loaded with factory 180s, with near identical SD and BCs for comparable bullets. So on pass-through shots, even the difference there is marginal.

Despite what your guide friends may have told you.

 

[Ura-Ki]

This!

I've never known a guide to tell somebody they can't shoot the gun they're most proficient with.
And I've known a number of people and heard of a few more that have killed plenty of moose with a .270. Moose have the reputation of being far easier to kill than an elk, and plenty of elk fall every year to the .270W.
I have a number of those of my own.
But that's not my point. Any guide that approves the use of a 7mmRM with 160-170gr class bullets, but doesn't approve of the .270 w/150-160gr bullets is an idiot. There isn't enough difference ballistically to bother with.

And anyone that intentionally goes after the big bears with anything less than a .300WM is an even bigger idiot. Big bear calibers should start at .338 and go up from there, IYAM. But I do know one former Alaskan guide that keeps a .338-06 pump rifle in camp just for self defense.

As far as bison, more buffalo and bison fell to black powder cartridges than modern chamberings. So I'm sure a .270 is plenty.
Most people don't realize it, but the .270W w/150gr bullets @2900 is the ballistic twin of the 300WM loaded with factory 180s, with near identical SD and BCs for comparable bullets. So on pass-through shots, even the difference there is marginal.

Despite what your guide friends may have told you.

These are many of the reasons I never got on board with the 7 mm mag, and sold off the .300 win mag, not enough "improvement" over the .270 or the .30/06 to make it worth the extra expense or the added recoil. If I need more then ether of these, I do have the .338 win mag or the .375 Weatherby mag! If even more is needed, the Marlin Lever in .45/70 gets the job done! Point is, VERY few will ever reach the apex of what the two magnums are actually capable of, and a good hunter should never be required to go that far in the first place!

 

[Jamie6.5]

This!

These are many of the reasons I never got on board with the 7 mm mag, and sold off the .300 win mag, not enough "improvement" over the .270 or the .30/06 to make it worth the extra expense or the added recoil. If I need more then ether of these, I do have the .338 win mag or the .375 Weatherby mag! If even more is needed, the Marlin Lever in .45/70 gets the job done! Point is, VERY few will ever reach the apex of what the two magnums are actually capable of, and a good hunter should never be required to go that far in the first place!

There are game species that require the bigger mags, and the big bears are definitely on that list. I think I'd rather hunt a Bengal tiger than an Alaskan Brown or big Griz. Either one's capable of killing me with ease if I can't stop them.

But I don't consider either the bison or moose to be anywhere near that level of dangerous or hard to kill.
They just aren't, and I've never met anyone that claims they are. Sure moose are dangerous if you're stupid and unarmed, but they don't have a rep for being difficult to kill.
But again, that's not really the point.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Are we saying knock down power is a myth or an idea?
There is a whole thread and 100s of post getting into it on Ifish.
IMO And Personal experience with neck shots, lungs and heart shots and spine shots. Unless you hit some central nervous system , usually the animal won't just drop where it stands.
Anyways.

The only round I've ever seen drop an elk where it stood, with a heart/lung shot, was a .35 Whelen loaded with 180gr slugs.
At about 50 yds, It went down like it had been poleaxed. When we opened it up it was full of gelatinous goo, and there was an exit hole on the far side big enough to put both of my fists in.

 

[Crohnos01]

I find it hard to believe that anyone might still claim any vast superiority of the 7MM RM over the .270Win in terms of killing power.
The notion that a 160gr .284 bullet moving at ~2,900 fps is more than marginally superior to a 150gr .277 bullet moving at ~2,900 fps is ludicrous.
10 grains more mass and .007" more frontal area is what it is. Insignificant.

I think we are in danger of being off topic, but I can't let this go without clarification. The 270 is a fine round.. works great as will any caliber with correct placement and I own one. However as far as energy delivered on impact, the 270 starts falling off anywhere north of 300 yards compared to the 7mm which I also own. For my money, I prefer the 7mm for heavier game because I can go to a 180 or even 200 grain bullet if necessary without making my ballistics look like my pee stream in the woods. A 160 grain 270 round is about the top end of what it will handle ballistically. It boils down to knowing your weapon, where you will be hunting, expected ranges you are shooting at, and type of game. Oh yeah... and I have a number of elk that just fell over to my 7mm as well as deer and scores of antelope.

 

[tac]

The only large animal I shot was an elg back in 1990, in Normark. I was using the guide's dad's 6.5x55SE m/38 carbine with open sights, and a Norma 140gr something or other. I took it 3/4 across the port beam at about 60m, and it coughed once and went onto its knees. Never moved after that. The bullet had totally minced the top of the heart and lungs and what was left was just under the skin on the starboard side. It weighed out at just over 1100 pounds, but it had been starving. It was a mercy.

tac

 

[Jamie6.5]

The only large animal I shot was an elg back in 1990, in Normark. I was using the guide's dad's 6.5x55SE m/38 carbine with open sights, and a Norma 140gr something or other. I took it 3/4 across the port beam at about 60m, and it coughed once and went onto its knees. Never moved after that. The bullet had totally minced the top of the heart and lungs and what was left was just under the skin on the starboard side. It weighed out at just over 1100 pounds, but it had been starving. It was a mercy.

tac

Yup.
The Scandinavians have been killing moose for years with the 6.5x55. Hence my assertion that they're not really all that hard to kill, even when they haven't been starving.

But then again, they've been known to put down polar bears with the "Mighty 6.5 Swede" too.

 

[tac]

But then again, they've been known to put down polar bears with the "Mighty 6.5 Swede" too.

Very few animals can resist going down when shot through the eyeball - any eyeball.

My old 2 Para Training Wing Colour Sergeant used that method of dropping BGs in Northern Ireland. He used to shoot them in the eye, if at all possible. None of this 'shoot to incapacitate' carp. 'That'll incapacitate the almighty **** out of 'em', he noted.

tac

 

[snarlingdog]

Ok I haven't done a lot of rifle reloads. So the lands is the max OAL for a round?

 

[FishnhuntOR]

You were right, I was thinking of COAL which From base to tip.
I'm still new and took last few months off to work on the house and summer vacations.
Check this out.
Hornady LNL OAL Gauge and Bullet Comparator

 

[snarlingdog]

Oh ok lol. That's new to me guess I'll have to try it this week when I reload for my 270

 

[orygun]

Ok I haven't done a lot of rifle reloads. So the lands is the max OAL for a round?

The end of the lands is not at the OAL , but certainly may have something to do with it!
In theory, I can load my 180gr 30-06 loads to 3.340, but my rifle will jam the bullet into the lands well before that. Off hand I believe around .060" short of that is max for my gun.