1911s suck?

[jake2far]

he makes good points about tolerances. you have a batch of slides that are high on the allowable tolerances mated with frames that are low on tolerances and you have a loose fitting pistol. vice versa and you have a tight fitting pistol. those principals applies to other tolerances and systems like feed ramps and barrel bushings. but that in no way means that 1911's are bad pistols. it means that there are a lot of companies half arsing the production of their 1911 clone. there are no glock clones that i know of. glocks obviously have top notch manufacturing requirements. you cant say that for all 1911 manufacturers.

He doesn't make "good points", in fact he is dead wrong. He goes on about how in the old days they were hand assembled by craftsman, read this:
World War II and the years leading up to it created a great demand. During the war, about 1.9 million units were procured by the U.S. Government for all forces, production being undertaken by several manufacturers, including Remington Rand (900,000 produced), Colt (400,000), Ithaca Gun Company (400,000), Union Switch & Signal (50,000), and Singer (500). So many were produced that after 1945 the government did not order any new pistols, and simply used existing parts inventories to "arsenal refinish" guns when necessary. This pistol was favored by US military personnel.[10]


During the war 1.9 million were produced on pre computer assembly lines. Now he says with modern equipment we can't duplicate what was done back in 1941-1945. HMMMM yea right, manual assembly lines with out modern equipment, and all these pistols were hand assembled by craftsman, wait almost all the men were at war, they were assembled by women and men who couldn't qualify for war, and they weren't craftsman they were what was available off the street.
The very criticism of the manufacturing process failure which makes the 1911 not work is the same plus that makes the Glock work, modern equipment. The Government had on going trials and tests, when the weapons failed they were pulled and the manufacturing process was adjusted to bring the parts into compliance. There was no "hand fitting" the test were for interchangablity between manufacturers, a Colt was supposed to fit a Remington Rand, which was supposed to fit a Ithaca and so on.
The process was designed to be the opposite of hand fitting. What is amazing is this same process was used on th Garand. Do the math 1.9 million weapons produced during the war, hand fit, yea right. Oh and they had to function as the testing included firing the weapon till it got to hot to hold, dunking it in a water tank and continuing. The guy should read about the process before he spouts off about why they don't work.

Jim

 

[Key-Hay]

I have 2 1911s and an XdM. I must be stupid er somthin. NOT!!!

 

[plumberfishes]

"I disagree about Glocks, they are good,but a Sig 226 or CZ 75 or Mak is a better pistol. spad"
ummmm have you ever shot a makarov.... better than a glock?? for what reliability... no both will shoot most anything, hmmm compact... nope glocks go smaller... muzzel flip.... hmm nope glocks are better... ummmmm cleaning.... yea right...what about a mak is better than a glock? the price??? ohh yes if you want a toss down walk away gun, maks are great.... never shot/owned a sig or a cz so i'll not add in there.

 

[Velzey]

Jim hit the nail on the head!

And geeeze really? the first pic that pops up in the slide show on their website is a guy holding a pistol "gansta style" pathetic...

 

[nwo]

He is quite professional looking wearing that T-shirt.

 

[Mark W.]

During the war 1.9 million were produced on pre computer assembly lines. Now he says with modern equipment we can't duplicate what was done back in 1941-1945. HMMMM yea right, manual assembly lines with out modern equipment, and all these pistols were hand assembled by craftsman, wait almost all the men were at war, they were assembled by women and men who couldn't qualify for war, and they weren't craftsman they were what was available off the street.

Jim

I would agrue that after assembling a few thousand 1911's those girls and wives and mothers off the street were in fact HIGHLY SKILLED Craftsmen. In fact in many cases of manufacturing the women that did the jobs (especially repetitive tasks) were vastly superior to the men that did the job before and after. The US Goverment did many studies on this very thing. The women were by their nature better suited to boring repetitive tasks without going off the program. Its also the reason women were considered the better Ferry Pilots and target tow Pilots when compared to men they did what they were told the way they were told and they did it over and over again with a real passion for getting it right.

 

[unklekippy]

If his "resume" is true and not BS, some stock should be put into his words.Over 25 years after introduction to the US, there are people that think Glocks will blow up in your hand because they are "plastic". I have fired RIA, Kimber, Colt and Ruger 1911's and they all work fine. In my opinion, capacity and weight are the only downfalls of the 1911. A 39 oz. 1911 with 7 rd. capacity, or a 30 oz. FNP with 15 rd. capacity. Knocking the 1911 is sacreligious. That doesn't mean we haven't made some improvements in 100 years. This guy keeps bringing up the "ego" of 1911 owners. Being covered in silly tattoo's and wearing a shirt my 8 year old would like shows to me that he is compensating for something. There are things to be learned from a guy like that. I like the "No warrior should have a favorite weapon" stance. I'm an Oregonian. Why would I go to anybody but Clint Smith for pistol training at Thunder Ranch? Kip

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Age and time do not always equal wisdom

 

[slimmer13]

Everything about that guy screams d bag. BTW I am currently reading the autobiography of Navy SEAL, Chris Kyle ("the most lethal sniper in U.S. military history"). Through multiple tours in Iraq, including the battles of Falleujah, Ramadi, and many others he carried his own personal handguns, (Springfield TRP operator or his Sig p220). He didnt mention Glocks.

 

[mjbskwim]

I did not even watch it. I have both guns in multiples and both are excellent weapons. I would bet my life on my 1911s

Well I watched about 1 minute of it.I've watched a minute of his stuff before and didn't make it to the end.

But I have both and shoot both pretty good (I can hit what I'm aiming at 80% of the time) and would trust my life with either gun. The G20 would be the one I pick first though
But the real question is who care what he thinks about 1911s? Who cares what he thinks about glocks?
And who made him an expert? The number of hits he has on You Tube?
How many of y'all have worked around someone that has done the same job for 20+ years and still didn't do it that well? I know I have.Sometimes resumes are inflated.

As far as all guns being Glocks.That would make a lot of people bad shooters if their hands didn't fit them well.

 

[jordanvraptor]

He's no Jeff Cooper...

I've only been training with firearms and studying them for about thirty years but I have noticed that many of the new trainers are trying to reinvent the wheel. It seems like they have to have their own take or spin on things to set them apart from those who have taught tried and true methods. I won't criticize innovation, but doing something different just to be different violates the KISS principle. I will stick with what works and how I've been training. I've owned 9 Glocks by the way and my primary pistol is a Beretta M9. I can get the job done with my 1950's .38 M&P if I have to. You are the weapon, the gun is just a tool.

 

[pdx lefty]

About three years ago, i worked with a guy that had to have the latest and greatest of everything. Truck, cell phone, computer, TV, every imaginable electronic gadget you can think of. Knowing I'm a gun owner, one day he asks me to take him gun shopping. I asked him what he was looking for, CC, hunting, home defense? He said he wasn't sure, he just wanted a gun that, "When i pull it out at the range people would be like, DAMN!" I told him that gun doesn't exist, my "DAMN!" gun is a G-19. The guy next to me maybe rockin a revolver, his "DAMN!" gun. Then he asks, what if money was no object, what would you get? A, G-19, i love that firearm and I'm not trying to impress anyone. His interest in firearm didn't last and moved on to other things.

I had a point but forgot what it was.

Lefty.

 

[jake2far]

I would agrue that after assembling a few thousand 1911's those girls and wives and mothers off the street were in fact HIGHLY SKILLED Craftsmen. In fact in many cases of manufacturing the women that did the jobs (especially repetitive tasks) were vastly superior to the men that did the job before and after. The US Goverment did many studies on this very thing. The women were by their nature better suited to boring repetitive tasks without going off the program. Its also the reason women were considered the better Ferry Pilots and target tow Pilots when compared to men they did what they were told the way they were told and they did it over and over again with a real passion for getting it right.

You are making my point. The people (nomal off the street) could machine, assemble, and produce 1911A1's on a scale never seen before or since. They were not hand fit, the parts had to interchange from one Manufacturer to the other. It means the parts had to be made to spec, fast, and cheap. Read up on the Remington Rand story.
You can not manufacturer hand fit parts and have interchangablity.
These "women" produced weapons that could be assembled in the field with parts from different guns and be made to work. The reason we can't do this now is not because of new technology or lack of "women" (read skilled labor, their ability today is the same as 1941) to do the work, it is quality control, standards, and attitude.
The guy in the video said this, the grip angle is changed by people removing the arched main spring housing making it the same as a Glock. The 1911 in its original form had a straight main sping housing, the grip angle is not like a Glock, the arched main spring housing doesn't make it like a Glock either. The guy has an opinion, of himself, 1911's, and Glocks. More power to him, I chose to pickup and shot what I feel comfortable with. The facts are not in his favor, ask any of the millions of Vets who put their life on the line with one of the 1911's, maybe start with SGT York:
Alvin C. York - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"During the assault, six German soldiers in a trench near York charged him with fixed bayonets. York had fired all the rounds in his M1917 Enfield rifle,[19] but drew his .45 Colt automatic pistol[20] and shot all six soldiers before they could reach him.[21]"

http://www.coolgunsite.com/collectors_guide.htm
Remington Rand:
Remington Rand (M1911-A1): (Return to top)
Remington Rand was awarded its first order on March 16th, 1942, for a total of 125,000 1911A1 pistols. The company had no experience building pistols at the time it was awarded the contract. Remington Rand formed a new division (Remington Rand "C" Division) to take charge of building the pistols. Remington Rand "C" Division converted a vacant plant into a modern pistol manufacturing facility. The plant was located on Dickerson street in Syracuse, N.Y and was once used for building typewriters,

Initially some manufacturing equipment was not available. This caused Remington Rand to acquire parts from other sources to complete the early pistols. They purchased barrels from High Standard, Colt, and Springfield Armory; Disconnectors from US&S; Grips safeties from Colt; and Slide stops from Colt and Springfield Armory (2,865 left over from WWI). Remington Rand "C" Division inherited much of the documentation, tooling, and machinery that originally was used by The Singer Manufacturing Co. in their Educational Order. Consequently some of the parts of the early pistols were made using Singer supplied tooling and fixtures. Careful examination of Early Remington Rand pistols will reveal striking similarities in some of the parts to Singer made parts such as the triggers and mainspring housings. The first 255 production pistols where accepted by ordinance inspectors in November of 1942.

Initial shipments appeared to perform satisfactorily, but subsequent tests performed by Ordnance Inspectors revealed serious problems with parts interchangeability. In March 1943 James Rand Jr., stopped production due to a high rate of Parts Interchangeability Test failures. Only after a change in management and a thorough review of the inspection and manufacturing operations was production finally resumed in May of 1943. Throughout production Remington Rand aggressively attempted to innovate and improve the production of 1911A1 pistols.

By March of 1945 they where building the lowest price pistol in the war effort and quality was considered second to none. By the end of the war Remington Rand had produced over 875,000 pistols, almost as many as Colt (628,808) and Ithaca (335,467) combined. Reference Charles Clawsons “Colt .45 Service pistols”.

The guy in the video is a complete "jack wad" he is selling his brand of weapon instruction. For those who like his demeanor, tatoos, tee shirt, swearing, ear ring, attitude, and instruction style, good on them. The guy has no clue what he is talking about.
Sorry about the length, off my soap box now.

Jim

 

[Luieburger]

.

 

[eganx]

a 1911 Glock. I would buy that.
But he immediately calls into question his credibility saying 15,000 students have fired 15,000,000 rounds. That is an average of 10,000 rounds per student.

No, that 1,000 a student, and is quite reasonable.

He does make a few decent points, but I'll keep my 1911 and my glock and enjoy them both for what they are

 

[madmax]

I agree. I am a 1911 guy. I own a few high end 1911s that are again modded. when I use a 1911 for a comp there are a ton of little thing I have to do to keep it going to though the match. its picky on ammo. need to be wet, feed ramp need to be clean after every stage. I have a tiny 1911 that I carry alot. I have to spend 20-30 mins every day before carrying to make sure its reliable.

on the other hand my g30 and g21 are fire and forget. they will run any ammo, could care less about lube.

carry, comp and target are different.

 

[mortre]

High capacity and lightweight are IMO the two most over-rated qualities in a carry gun. Glock's are good guns, but fit my hand horribly. Last one I shot wore a blister on my hand with one box of rounds. Regardless of how many bullets or how light it is or how "reliable", if I can't put rounds on target I ain't carrying it.

 

[JGRuby]

I went into boot camp on my 18th birthday - I have shot and qualified with 1911's ever since. I will put my life on the line with a gun I trust, know and believe in and that is the 1911. I have other guns that I trust but I can picture my 1911 in my mind as well as I can see it with my eyes. I am now 50 years old this year - I trust that pistol to a extent I do very few other things. I have depended on that pistol both during the time I was in the Navy and since when things go bump in the night. We choose our beliefs, we choose our wifes and we choose those things which will protect us in life knowing full well that they will be there when yoiu need them most. I will stick with my 1911.

James Ruby

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Well I watched about 1 minute of it.I've watched a minute of his stuff before and didn't make it to the end.

But I have both and shoot both pretty good (I can hit what I'm aiming at 80% of the time) and would trust my life with either gun. The G20 would be the one I pick first though
But the real question is who care what he thinks about 1911s? Who cares what he thinks about glocks?
And who made him an expert? The number of hits he has on You Tube?
How many of y'all have worked around someone that has done the same job for 20+ years and still didn't do it that well? I know I have.Sometimes resumes are inflated.

As far as all guns being Glocks.That would make a lot of people bad shooters if their hands didn't fit them well.

G20.. yes! It can do almost anything you can ask a handgun to do

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I went into boot camp on my 18th birthday - I have shot and qualified with 1911's ever since. I will put my life on the line with a gun I trust, know and believe in and that is the 1911. I have other guns that I trust but I can picture my 1911 in my mind as well as I can see it with my eyes. I am now 50 years old this year - I trust that pistol to a extent I do very few other things. I have depended on that pistol both during the time I was in the Navy and since when things go bump in the night. We choose our beliefs, we choose our wifes and we choose those things which will protect us in life knowing full well that they will be there when yoiu need them most. I will stick with my 1911.

James Ruby

I agree with all but "we choose our wives"..

They choose us