1911 vs...

[22many]

External/manual safeties have zero to do with preventing an AD, it is safe and proper handling that makes the difference.

While I do agree with you on your brain is the ultimate safety I disagree with you on safeties. External safeties are safer. I have a 40 cal hole in the dash of my truck to remind me of that.

Mjbskwim, No, I don't have any double action revolvers. Only single actions. But I see your point.

 

[OregonPlinker]

I dont have a lot handgun experience but heres my recent discovery... I have a few .22 pistols and 2 SA revolvers. I have a poly 9mm and 40. A SA/DA 357 revolver and a DA only 357. I like them all but had to have a 1911. So I bought 2 haha. I might not ever buy anything else as far as handguns are concerned. I like the feel, I like the aftermarket trail, I like the triggers and I havent done anything to them yet. Im gonna leave these ones alone and build one soon. Probably a colt or springfield. I just got a taurus and a gsg .22...

 

[DieselScout]

Here is my vote.....

 

[Boats]

Mjbskwim, No, I don't have any double action revolvers. Only single actions. But I see your point.

His point was pointless. There have been no DA revolvers made, or ever made, that featured a short stroke trigger pull of ~5.5 pounds.

There has never been ANY unmodified DA wheelgun that REQUIRES a holster as part of its best handling practices.

Comparing safetyless striker fired pistols to DA revolvers for ease of triggering a ND is daft.

 

[glockman99]

I'll take my (customized) Smith & Wesson 4506 over any 1911...But that's just me.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Everyone should own a 1911 as well as a polymer pistol..i.e a glock or xd
What I have an issue with is when folks have the need or desire to overpay for said types of pistols thinking they'll get god like function out of them.. when really they suffer from every problem a lesser priced pistol would.
Which one would I want in a SHTF moment? A 9mm glock. Probably a G19. But then again thats more of a caliber & mag capacity debate. I also dislike the side manual safety on any kind of pistol (1911). Its annoying. My finger is the safety.

 

[22many]

His point was pointless. There have been no DA revolvers made, or ever made, that featured a short stroke trigger pull of ~5.5 pounds.

There has never been ANY unmodified DA wheelgun that REQUIRES a holster as part of its best handling practices.

Comparing safetyless striker fired pistols to DA revolvers for ease of triggering a ND is daft.

I think you missed his point. The part about your brain is the ultimate safety. Also, no gun requires a holster but it can lessen the chances of a accidental discharge.

 

[mjbskwim]

His point was pointless. There have been no DA revolvers made, or ever made, that featured a short stroke trigger pull of ~5.5 pounds.

There has never been ANY unmodified DA wheelgun that REQUIRES a holster as part of its best handling practices.

Comparing safetyless striker fired pistols to DA revolvers for ease of triggering a ND is daft.

Really? Daft?
Just as easy to ND and shoot your self with a revolver as it is with a DA pistol....... if you don't use safe handling techniques.
You are stupid enough to keep your finger on the trigger on a glock and shoot yourself in the leg while holstering it,you will be stupid enough to do it with a revolver.

Same thing. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are pointing the gun at something you wish to destroy.
I have never had a ND with any of my glocks or anyone else's glocks or XDs M&Ps FNs OR any of the revolvers I have had

WTF does this mean? What gun does?

There has never been ANY unmodified DA wheelgun that REQUIRES a holster as part of its best handling practices.

Your points seems pointless to me.

 

[Boats]

Yep. Daft. I did say that because apples aren't oranges. The amount of trigger travel and the 10-12 pound pull on the typical DA revolver is a far larger margin for error as opposed to the trigger system of a Glock or a M&P.

WTF does this mean? (About holsters) What gun does?

Take a Glock or a M&P and stick it in your waistband daily and see how long it takes for the sex change operation to occur. By contrast, one could carry a DA revolver that way, or in a jacket pocket, and never come close to putting a hole in anything unintentionally.

 

[Boats]

I think you missed his point. The part about your brain is the ultimate safety. Also, no gun requires a holster but it can lessen the chances of a accidental discharge.

I got that he thinks the brain is the ultimate safety. I don't disagree with that. I take issue with anyone comparing striker fired autos with DA wheelguns to make it sound as if there is a equivalent mechanical margin for error against a ND.

 

[jonn5335]

I feel like the younger crowd tends to lean towards the poly, subcompact, ugly, lightweight, 20rnd mags, flashlight, laser and can opener attachment. Where the older, mature, most intresting man in the world would lean at a 1911 and it would be a colt.

 

[GRingle]

I love the gun I own and the one I am shooting at the time I am shooting it. LOL I do own a Range Officer 45 ACP 1911. I shot an XDM 9 mm and liked it too. I shoot a 22 auto and that is fun. Have not shot wheel guns but I bet they are fun too. Shot guns and rifles all have a place in my safe too. If it goes bang it has a place in my world. Handguns for shooting steel and making holes in paper, rifles for deer, elk, coyotes, etc... and making holes in paper, and shotguns for quail, dove, turkey, ducks, rabbits etc.... Like em all......

 

[22many]

I have had Colt style safeties come off safe when they were not suppose to while in the holster and have had Walther style safeties activate when I did not want them to during malfunction clearance drills (racking the slide). To my way of thinking, this makes manual/external safeties less safe not more so. I'll take a passive safety and I am alive today because a novice did not know how to operate a 1911 safety which gave me those precious seconds to recover the weapon.


The trigger was pressed and the firearm did what it was
designed to do, it went bang.
Where's the problem? I think you missed an opportunity to learn something with that experience. Again, it's about proper handling not a mechanical device making up for the lack of it.

If your safety came off and on your weapon when it was not suppose to then the safety is faulty and should be replaced. Has nohing to do with it being "better" or "worse" of a safety. And the novice that couldn't get his safety off that
contributes to you being alive proves that the safety worked as it should.

As far as my hole in the dash, where the problem is had the gun had a external safety then the gun wouldn't have went off. I didn't miss a opportunity to learn anything. I learned that no matter how safe we humans try to be accidents will happen and that a external safety is one more step to prevention. If you can't see that as being safer then I don't know what to tell ya......

 

[mjbskwim]

Yep. Daft. I did say that because apples aren't oranges. The amount of trigger travel and the 10-12 pound pull on the typical DA revolver is a far larger margin for error as opposed to the trigger system of a Glock or a M&P.


Take a Glock or a M&P and stick it in your waistband daily and see how long it takes for the sex change operation to occur. By contrast, one could carry a DA revolver that way, or in a jacket pocket, and never come close to putting a hole in anything unintentionally.

And putting a loaded revolver in your belt without a holster isn't daft

Well at least I got called a daft by a daft

 

[Boats]

And putting a loaded revolver in your belt without a holster isn't daft

Well at least I got called a daft by a daft

The wound involved has picked up the descriptor "Glock leg" for a reason. I have been around long enough to know that there was no such thing as "revolver leg." Most NDs involving DA revolvers in their heyday had to do with people thumbing them back to single action and either slipping the hammer with its integrated firing pin onto the primer, or fingering the trigger negligently in its lighter SA mode. It was nearly unheard of that there was a ND with the DA trigger pull or with DAO service revolvers. These days, with transfer bar systems, the old thumbing back ND on a DA revolver isn't even really possible any more without the trigger being pulled.

 

[aj82]

i agree that regardless of make model caliber etc.. safety comes down to awareness and training. that having been said yeah mathematically speaking a striker fired doa weapon with no external safety would probably have nd more often but i like to think i would be as safe with a weapon like that as i would with a weapon that has 3 safeties a 17lb trigger pull and a built in alarm that says hey stu*pid you are about to shoot yourself. personally i don't beleive there is a best gun beyond whatever you have access to when a need arises will be the best gun at that given point in time. all i can say is i am excited to get a 1911 and really look forward to learning a new weapon, who knows i might just turn into a 1911 convert : )

 

[rsmccsman]

The wound involved has picked up the descriptor "Glock leg" for a reason. I have been around long enough to know that there was no such thing as "revolver leg." Most NDs involving DA revolvers in their heyday had to do with people thumbing them back to single action and either slipping the hammer with its integrated firing pin onto the primer, or fingering the trigger negligently in its lighter SA mode. It was nearly unheard of that there was a ND with the DA trigger pull or with DAO service revolvers. These days, with transfer bar systems, the old thumbing back ND on a DA revolver isn't even really possible any more without the trigger being pulled.

Confession time... 24 years ago I had just bought my first gun ever it was a DA GP100 revolver with probably a 10# trigger pull. I had maybe 100 rounds through it. I was a completely untrained novice and was stupidly playing with my gun and after dry firing it I reloaded it and went to put it away and pulled the trigger sending a bullet through my mattress into the floor. Scared the %#$! out of me. I did not thumb it back into SA mode. A very short time later I remedied my lack of knowledge and took a fantastic training class from a really great guy named Joe Williams a retired fighter pilot who had opened a gun store. I have now been ND free for 24 years after receiving proper training, carrying everything from revolvers to Glocks, to 1911s over the years to pocket pistols.

My point is simply that I don't buy your comment that it was "nearly unheard of" for a DA service revolver to have an ND is true. I know first hand just how easy it is with even the heaviest of factory trigger pulls. I was gripping the gun normally when it happened so a grip safety wouldn't have prevented my ND either. Grip safeties are designed to prevent AD if you drop the gun on the ground. I just had to learn to keep my stupid finger out of the trigger guard. If ND is now more common with Glocks maybe its because they are so popular compared to revolvers.

As far as a particular design being more inherently safe if we go there we open the doorway for the Lawyers to design our guns with all the bells and whistles that take multiple steps to get them into action. Then they take you to trial for premeditation if you actually have to use it because of the effort it took to make it run.

 

[Rich7944]

I was in the same boat as you "poly guy that wants a 1911 to carry". Bought a Kimber, took it to the range, a few times and got used to it. I then started packing it instead of my XDM and it was much more cumbersome compared to the XDM.

Chances are if you get into a gun fight on the street the cops are going to take your gun for who knows how long. If they do then the pretty 1911 is in the hands of the police to do who knows what with. Get in the same fight with the poly gun that cost half the price or less, then who cares when you get it back.

Go to youtube and watch the video 1911's suck by James Yeager. I am not saying they suck but just not a first choice in my opinion. I enjoy shooting 1911's myself but I'll stick to my XDS or G19 for carry purposes.

 

[iamme]

and go to youtube and find the 100 videos on why glocks suck. Everyone has their opinion, the best gun is the one you train with and runs. Personally- if a gun saves my life because it works and I know it the least of my concern is cops holding onto it, I'm still alive!

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Chances are if you get into a gun fight on the street the cops are going to take your gun for who knows how long. If they do then the pretty 1911 is in the hands of the police to do who knows what with. Get in the same fight with the poly gun that cost half the price or less, then who cares when you get it back

M+1. I may not carry the nicest pistols for CC but I'd rather have my $1000-$1500 investment in my hands and in my humidity controlled environment than it the possession of the greasy little fingers of the law. Many of the firearms returned after altercations and storage either came back dinged and scratched to hell or with surface rust and or pitting. It wouldn't break my heart or the bank if they held on to my little revolver or one of my cheap 9mm or .380 pistols than my 1911s or other prized pistols. Don't get me wrong I enjoy abusing my firearms. And shooting the hell out of them but I want that wear and tear to be done by me and. No one else. Look at half the firearms taken during Katrina.. many still are not back to theirowners and some that were came back in horrible horrible condition.