1890's commercial LSA Enfield

Discussion in 'Curio & Relic Discussion' started by Hal OPeridol, Aug 24, 2018.

Tags:
  1. Hal OPeridol

    Hal OPeridol
    Blaine
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    262
    London Small Arms rifle made for African safaris in .303 Enfield. Not a sporterized ex military rifle. Custom made hunting rifle.


    lsasporter001.jpg


    lsasporter019.jpg

    lsasporter008.jpg

    lsasporter003.jpg

    lsasporter004.jpg


    lsasporter007.jpg

    lsasporter009.jpg

    lsasporter015.jpg
     
    Ura-Ki, nfield4, MountainBear and 9 others like this.
  2. GOG

    GOG
    State of Jefferson
    Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

    Messages:
    2,823
    Likes Received:
    5,836
    Very nice, I've never seen one before and the integrated front sight ramp is a thing of beauty. :)

    How about giving us the story? I'm sure others are curious as well.
     
  3. Hal OPeridol

    Hal OPeridol
    Blaine
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    262
    The story? Bought it from a Canadian gun store in Vancouver BC. think I gave 600 canadian at the time. Lots of neat stuff was coming out of the woodwork up there in 2001, folks scared of the long arm registration. U should have seen some of the nice stuff that got destroyed.
     
    Medic! and GOG like this.
  4. GOG

    GOG
    State of Jefferson
    Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

    Messages:
    2,823
    Likes Received:
    5,836
    It seems like a pretty unique piece to me and I think it's a really nice rifle.
     
  5. tac

    tac
    UK, Oregon and Ontario.
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    4,125
    Likes Received:
    9,986
    Member in our club has its near-cousin - a Lee-Speed made in 1898, in .303British of course. His GG-father was a professional white hunter in Rhodesia, and then, after the cessation of hostilities in South Africa in 1902, there until his death during WW1. It came to him via his g'father and then father, and he uses it on the hill in Scotland, and a very beautiful thing it is, too. It likes the 210gr round nose stuff, snce that is what it was made for, and it is, by all accounts, a real deer dropper. Having shot it a couple of times, I can tell you that it feels rather like shooting a lightweight .300WM. Next time he is over I'll take pics.

    tac
     
    Medic!, KKG, GOG and 1 other person like this.
  6. JRuby

    JRuby
    St. Helens Oregon
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,621
    Likes Received:
    4,124
    I am happy I did not see those guns destroyed I would have been I'll. This is a beautiful rifle.
     
    GOG likes this.
  7. tac

    tac
    UK, Oregon and Ontario.
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    4,125
    Likes Received:
    9,986
    Talking about destroying rare firearms, during the 1997 compulsory mass hand-in here on maninland UK, there was also a contemporary 'arms amnesty' where people who may have 'indavertently been in possession' of a firearm of any kind, ie, left in an attic or something like that, could hand it in with no questions asked.

    One of the many interesting guns handed in to a police station somewhere in the West Midlands (but I might be wrong), was a fine-looking Luger pistol. By a lucky fluke of fate, one of the supervising officers managing this particular police station's intake of amnesty handguns was not only a keen shooter, but also an avid reader of gun literature. Like the other half-ton of handguns, this one was headed for the smelter, until he pursuaded his boss that it was worth a bit of money to a museum, or even the national collection in the MoD Pattern Room - then still situated in Nottingham along with BAe. Calling up the much-missed and irreplaceable Herb Woodend MBE, he gave him the news.

    'In my hands' he said, 'I'm holding a Krieghoff-made P08 pistol is near mint condition. Are you interested?' 'Nice', said Herb, 'but we already have a few of them.'

    'Not with the number 0001 on it, you don't'.

    Like the Colt Paterson found in the belongings of an old lady in Tyne and Wear a few years later, there is neither story nor history, given that unlike the US forces, there never was any kind of 'bringback' facility here in UK for military personnel 'liberating' guns from oppression. On troopships, MP were on every gangway watching soldiers dumping stuff in the water between ship and shore, and many a prize went in as the boys went on.

    tac
     
    GOG and JRuby like this.
  8. MountainBear

    MountainBear
    Oregon
    Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    4,515
    Likes Received:
    5,337
    Someday, I will either buy a lee speed (or something like the OP’s gun, yikes :eek:, gorgeous), or build a “sort of” speed sporter on an already sporterized no. 1 smle.
     
    AndyinEverson, JRuby and GOG like this.
  9. tac

    tac
    UK, Oregon and Ontario.
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    4,125
    Likes Received:
    9,986
    MB - they are not a lot of money here since to most people they are totally unknown, except to the folks who appreciate them as a real piece of L-E history. There is a downside - of the four that I've seen over the years three had rifling that started about five or six inches down the barrel [yes, really] as a result of having been used in their early days with Cordite loads, well-known as horrific barrel burners.

    Re-barrelling them would take all the historic interest away, I think you'd agree.

    tac
     
    MountainBear likes this.
  10. tac

    tac
    UK, Oregon and Ontario.
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    4,125
    Likes Received:
    9,986
    BSA .303 Lee Speed
    Bolt Action Rifle (R/H) - S/H
    £699US$897/€775

    This item was for sale as of 02:00, 25 Aug 18
    Description
    A Bsa Lee Speed which features; Magazine cut off, border engraved detachable magazine and express open sights marked for 100,200 & 300.

    Finance Now available with 12,24 or 36 month terms with a minimum 10% deposit at 19.9% APR.

    Purchase with confidence from a family run business with over 30 years experience.

    Specifications
    • Licence:Firearm
    • Orient.:Right Handed
    • Serial #:14732
    • Stock #:170524/009
    • Condition:S/H

    Seller
    • Type:Trade
    • Name:Donaldson's Gunsmiths
    • Address:10 Wharfside, Fenny Stratford, Bletchley, Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, MK2 2AZ
    • Tel:01908-XXX XXX
    Visit Website View Map Open Map Opening Hours

    View dealers other items
     
    AndyinEverson, MountainBear and GOG like this.
  11. tac

    tac
    UK, Oregon and Ontario.
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    4,125
    Likes Received:
    9,986
    More............?



    Highwood Classic Arms

    British & Commonwealth

    Classic Military Rifles

    HOME

    BACK


    BSA Lee Speed
    No1 Pattern Sporting Rifle
    Retailed by William Powell & Sons Birmingham
    Calibre .303
    Circa 1900
    Price: £895


    Excellent Condition
    The Early versions of the Lee-Metford and Lee-Enfield bolt-action rifles that were sold commercially were required to carry acknowledgement of the patent holders for the designs used. The inventor of the bolt-action was the renowned, James Paris Lee. Joseph Speed was a senior manager at the Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield Lock between 1891 and 1909. He was closely involved in the production and manufacture of the Lee-actioned rifles for the British military, and made improvements to the action. It become customary for the factory Superintendents to make the applications for designs and alterations in their own name.
    Those rifles built by various manufacturers for commercial sale were hence marked
    “LEE-SPEED PATENTS"

    This particular rifle is in really nice condition, the metal work has the superior finish which has fine ornate engraving to the action, butt plate, trigger guard & magazine. The woodwork is fine selected walnut which is chequered at the wrist & fore-end & has a horn tipped fore-end. There is a silver escutcheon on the lower butt.

    The overall length is approximately 3ft 8 inches; the weight is 7 1/2 lb and the barrel has 5 groove Enfield rifling and is fiited with a machined sporting rib. The back sight is 100 yards fixed, folding leaves for 200 & 300 yards and tangent from 400 to 100 yards. The front sight is adjustment bead, platinum tipped. The bolt is the correct swept bolt with the flattened bolt handle
    as used on the military carbines.

    The original BSA Patent shotgun thumb saftey is still present and the dust cover is inscribed by the retailer "William Powell & Sons Birmingham"

    The bore is excellent but is beleived to have been rebarrelled at some time & the rib refitted. This has been done to a very high profesional standard.

    This rifle has been in the same family since the 1930s along with the Rigby Manlicher rifle we are also selling for them. The butt has several notches cut underneath which represent deer taken
    with this rifle. The family beleive this is game shot in the UK and not abroad.

    Great Opportunity to own a very nice Lee Speed Sporting Rifle from a bygone era.

    1.jpg

    2.jpg

    3.jpg
    4.jpg

    5.jpg

    6.jpg
    7.jpg
    8.jpg 8a.jpg 9.jpg
    10.jpg
    11.jpg
    12.jpg
    24.jpg
    25.jpg
    26.jpg

    tac
     
  12. MountainBear

    MountainBear
    Oregon
    Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    4,515
    Likes Received:
    5,337
    Oh yeah, the first was nice, but the second. Ooh. Love the color of the stock, the buttplate, the subtle engraving, but most of all, the notches on the buttstock. Imagine the stories that could tell. The maker even took the time to North/South the screws on the buttplate and grip cap.

    If only import fees and hoops weren’t so obscene...

    Added: 895£ isn’t that bad. Works out to just under $1200 US...
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
    Ura-Ki, AndyinEverson and GOG like this.
  13. tac

    tac
    UK, Oregon and Ontario.
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    4,125
    Likes Received:
    9,986
    Don't overlook the fact that you pay 20% LESS. Being a furrin buyer over here means you don't pay the 20% TOE - tax on everything.

    tac
     
  14. F2CMaDMaXX

    F2CMaDMaXX
    West of Portland from England
    Bullet goes where now? Staff Member Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    2,840
    Likes Received:
    2,872
    Yeah, you'll love that part, MountainBear, sales tax over there used to be 17.5% !!!!! Then i left, and it went to 20% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  15. MountainBear

    MountainBear
    Oregon
    Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    4,515
    Likes Received:
    5,337
    I just looked up the import regs. I might have to save up and try that. I think it would take a good long while, but looks like it will only add $300-$400 or so for fees and engraving. Who knows about shipping...

    If I was comfortable with the process, had the cash on hand, and had someone over there to verify condition, I’d buy that second one in a heartbeat...
     
    Ura-Ki, AndyinEverson and F2CMaDMaXX like this.
  16. tac

    tac
    UK, Oregon and Ontario.
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    4,125
    Likes Received:
    9,986
    If I could be certain that it would get engraved where it could not be seen, that would be good. But I've seen waaaay too many lovely old guns go West and get engraved with near-billboard size lettering all over the darn action...

    Criminal, is what I calls it.

    tac
     
  17. MountainBear

    MountainBear
    Oregon
    Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    4,515
    Likes Received:
    5,337
    I think Simpson does a decent job, but you are correct, the engraving requirement is horrid. I’ve seen more than one Garand barrel egged from the pressure of the stamping...
     
    Ura-Ki and AndyinEverson like this.
  18. MountainBear

    MountainBear
    Oregon
    Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    4,515
    Likes Received:
    5,337
    This is one of Simpson’s stamps. It is there, but not pounded in and fairly small.

    19B84BD7-CA14-41D9-8C56-B9C250A68C72.jpeg

    They say they will do it as discreetly as possible. I agree though, I wish they’d do it under the wood line.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
    Ura-Ki, AndyinEverson and F2CMaDMaXX like this.
  19. Medic!

    Medic!
    What just happened
    Pain in the neck. Gold Supporter

    Messages:
    5,457
    Likes Received:
    16,275
    Lugers only ever used four digit SN#'s
    So every 9999 guns your gona get a 0001.
     
  20. tac

    tac
    UK, Oregon and Ontario.
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    4,125
    Likes Received:
    9,986
    Heinrich Krieghoff's contract was for a TOTAL of 10,000 pistols - see - Military Krieghoff Lugers bear serial numbers of one through five digits without any suffix*. They began military production in 1935 with the "S" Code at serial number 1 and continued consecutively upward until approximately 13000 in early 1945. The serial numbers overlapped "variations" as defined by collectors and require some study to be certain the exact variation one is looking at.

    *All other P08s, made by Erfurt - up to 1918 - Suhl, DWM and Mauser had lower case letters stamped below the serial number on the front of the frame. Your comment is true for these P08 pistols, but not for the Krieghoff pistols.

    tac
     
    Medic! likes this.

Share This Page