1639 and complacency

[Andy54Hawken]

Like many things gun related ,
If it don't affect you now..it or something much worse will affect you later .
The Ben Franklin drawing of the carved up snake with the phrase "Join or Die" comes to mind here.

We as firearm owners face many challenges , not the least of which is disunity in just :
What firearms should be able to be owned...
Who should be able to own firearms...
How one goes about buying , trading , owning and storing firearms...

Every ban , restriction , requirement , etc...just paves the way for more of the same...all until there is nothing left.
Andy

 

[ACO]

I fought, put in time, handed out info, put up signs, informed all I could, and still there were aspects that popped up at the end that I didnt fully see from the start. I think it was incredibly complicated by design.

 

[slimmer13]

I fought, put in time, handed out info, put up signs, informed all I could, and still there were aspects that popped up at the end that I didnt fully see from the start. I think it was incredibly complicated by design.

I'm not talking about complicated nuances. I'm talking the crazy amount of people who are like "so does this affect 10 22s?"

 

[DuneHopper]

So no more electoral college? Concentrate all the power in LA, NY, CHI? Good plan

Did I say that was the plan? Its not as black and white as you make it appear.
Hmm I looked back didn't see where I typed that.

So everything else is broke and not working and falling apart at the seams, and you hold tight to the Electoral college even though state after state is abolishing its meaning. There may not be any effect at the rate its going. But sure, lets wait until we have civil unrest and a compete economic implosion, and they look at other ideas. Great plan.. If we break down to the point of Government management it would be on their terms not ours, and why of course dismantling all 50 state sounds crazy, we are each day removing what states stand for. And the key here is; no one is fixing it.

 

[DuneHopper]

I fought, put in time, handed out info, put up signs, informed all I could, and still there were aspects that popped up at the end that I didnt fully see from the start. I think it was incredibly complicated by design.

Seems emergency clauses and over packed bills are whats making it hard for anyone to understand the complexity.
Obama care, had more non-health care related fluff then actually health care material.

 

[Dungannon]

If a gun owner voted for 1639 out of ignorance or stupidity, and belatedly realized it's effect, 'ranting to the choir' threads like this would ensure they never join the discussion.

I'm deeply disappointed in the election result, but keep reminding myself that with all highly charged topics the calm rational non-accusatory voices are going to get more listeners. When people get carried away - in tone, volume, exaggeration, etc. - I walk away. I think a lot of voters who are ambivalent on the 2A would do the same.

 

[DivCurlGrad72]

From my limited experience with the ballot measure process, the problem appears to me to be that billionaires have the money to pay a large number of people who can easily collect enough signatures to get these measures on the ballot. Once on the ballot, the majority of voters ,who have no knowledge and no interest in guns, see these anti-gun measures, think to themselves, "well it can't hurt" (to vote in favor of the measures), so the measures easily pass. There are some legal means of keeping the measures off the ballot, but it's an uphill battle against a biased judicial system. When the judicial battle is lost, and the measure is on the ballot, it's almost impossible to stop, no matter how much time and money pro-2A people invest in defeating a measure. For this reason, ballot measures are one of the most dangerous threats to 2A rights.

 

[slimmer13]

If a gun owner voted for 1639 out of ignorance or stupidity, and belatedly realized it's effect, 'ranting to the choir' threads like this would ensure they never join the discussion.

I'm deeply disappointed in the election result, but keep reminding myself that with all highly charged topics the calm rational non-accusatory voices are going to get more listeners. When people get carried away - in tone, volume, exaggeration, etc. - I walk away. I think a lot of voters who are ambivalent on the 2A would do the same.

I hear you, but I think we are past the point of asking nice so we dont hurt feelings. Either bubblegum or get off the pot IMO.

 

[Diamondback]

We already tried asking nice, and all we got was a whizz taken in our faces.

 

[Pete F]

Lemme amend that with a few words, "If you are a WA voter and didn't help TRY TO stop this..." I assumed you guys in OR would realize I'm not talking about you since this was a North of The River fight.

It is not just a North of the border fight. It affects us in Oregon too. I sent donations to try to help stop 1639. Wish that I could have done more.

 

[Diamondback]

It is not just a North of the border fight. It affects us in Oregon too. I sent donations to try to help stop 1639. Wish that I could of done more.

Thank you, brother--truly a fight anywhere is a fight everywhere, but you had your own parallel battle to fight at the same time.

 

[Dungannon]

I hear you, but I think we are past the point of asking nice so we dont hurt feelings. Either bubblegum or get off the pot IMO.

I understand why you feel that way. All I've learned from this thread is to avoid them in the future.

 

[Mikej]

. Once on the ballot, the majority of voters ,who have no knowledge and no interest in guns, see these anti-gun measures, think to themselves, "well it can't hurt" (to vote in favor of the measures), so the measures easily pass.

It's possible that between the above ^^, and the fact that the densely populated areas of the state hold the majority of non-firearm folks, that gun owners/2nd Amendment supporters are outnumbered. How do you fight that? Being out numbered? And then there's gun owners that believe there should be more restrictions on firearm ownership. You can come on here and berate all you want, but if you/we are out numbered? What is there?

And YES, I understand were talking about an inalienable right here, but that don't help one squirt when there's a VOTE of the people.

 

[Caveman Jim]

594 should have been the wake up call.

TrueDat. I told many people on many forums, streets, meet/greets and email lists that if we don't defeat this initiative we can kiss our freedom goodbye in this state!!!! Deaf ears and cold shoulders was what I got...

I would've done a lot more last year if my family's & my health hadn't taken a bubblegum and that sucked the fight out of me.
Here's the reigns people, I cannot do this anymore.

 

[slimmer13]

I'm not saying I'm perfect or couldn't have done more, I could. I could have donated more, spent more time educating folks, etc. This is the only message I'm trying to get across by this.

In my opinion, it is each of our duty as gun owners to at the very least, pay basic attention to proposed initiatives and legislation. Stay educated on their contents, and vote.

 

[micdude]

From my limited experience with the ballot measure process, the problem appears to me to be that billionaires have the money to pay a large number of people who can easily collect enough signatures to get these measures on the ballot. Once on the ballot, the majority of voters ,who have no knowledge and no interest in guns, see these anti-gun measures, think to themselves, "well it can't hurt" (to vote in favor of the measures), so the measures easily pass. There are some legal means of keeping the measures off the ballot, but it's an uphill battle against a biased judicial system. When the judicial battle is lost, and the measure is on the ballot, it's almost impossible to stop, no matter how much time and money pro-2A people invest in defeating a measure. For this reason, ballot measures are one of the most dangerous threats to 2A rights.

Don't forget they lied to the voters to get on the ballot...

 

[micdude]

It's possible that between the above ^^, and the fact that the densely populated areas of the state hold the majority of non-firearm folks, that gun owners/2nd Amendment supporters are outnumbered. How do you fight that? Being out numbered? And then there's gun owners that believe there should be more restrictions on firearm ownership. You can come on here and berate all you want, but if you/we are out numbered? What is there?

And YES, I understand were talking about an inalienable right here, but that don't help one squirt when there's a VOTE of the people.

Education is the key and giving up is not the answer.

 

[JeremyK]

I voted against it, and I still have no idea what it covers. Voting against it was ultimately moot; the sad fact is that we responsible gun owners and voters are outnumbered by the progressive, freedom-hating zombies in the SeaTac area.

 

[Alexx1401]

Now that it's in effect, I'm completely floored by the number of members posting on this forum and others in threads about 1639 who seem to be completely clueless about it. Posts that indicate that they have zero knowledge of its contents and are wondering how it will be affecting them moving forward.

For God's sake, this has been discussed at great length for nearly the last year.

If they are this oblivious, I would bet that many didnt bother themselves with voting against it.

In my opinion, it is each of our duty as gun owners to at the very least, pay basic attention to proposed initiatives and legislation. Stay educated on their contents, and vote.

I said before this passed, and after it passed that this is exactly what would happen. It is not the first time. Remember when the mandatory BGC for all guns went in? People who worked retail were swamped with people walking in to buy a .22 or such for Christmas who had no idea the law went in. Gun owners who could not be bothered to vote. Well here we go again. And again a lot blame that we are outnumbered. So again I say there are millions of gun owners in even the worst states. Where are they come election time? They don't care until some new law effects them. Then they act like they had no idea it happened. Then they blame the NRA. Then they say their vote would not matter. Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[sabasarge]

For whatever reason - ignorance, defiance, don't care, etc. -what happens if everyone ignores the law?

I for one are fatigue from the assaults on the 2A and are beginning to see the logic and appeal in so many bumper stickers.

Well, with all due respect, and I've brought this up here in the recent past, all the big talkers about ignoring the law, "do not comply", yadda yadda yadda, yet every single time I bring up the idea of buying someone's pistol simply man-to man, ftf, as free men once did, the answer is always the same, even if said pistol was bought by the seller years ago....."yeah, I hear ya, would love to, but you know, gotta follow the law."
Horsepucky, or should I just say lotta big talkers here (and on other forums), but when it comes down to it, nuthin' but bended knees.