16 OCers vs several police officers

[Father of four]

Here is an example....LiveLeak.com - The Police Have No Authority Unless A Crime Has Been Committed

 

[Just Me]

I guess from seeing the officers standing over the table for quiet some time, then after another officer shows up the one citizens seem to be getting an ear full as the other citizen with the camera tells the guy his food is ready.

Like I said, we simply don't know what was said by the cops. This video does not show anything but cops doing what the taxpayers expect of them, which is investigating a complaint. If the cops acted inappropriately I would be with you in criticizing them. The fact is, they did nothing wrong. Leaning in to speak with "Richie" is a way of talking to him without making a spectacle of the situation. Asking him to step off to the side is, again, a way of keeping things low-key. Sorry, there was no "jack-booted-thuggery".

 

[chariot13]

Ever do a ride-along with cops? Yes, they do usually ask for ID when talking to folks. Doesn't mean they suspect anything, it is so they can document their contact (many reasons for that). Asking for ID does NOT "prove" they have an issue with OC. None of the cops I know (and there are many) have an issue with OC because they are 2A supporters. Gee, there could even be cops on this board because they love guns.

If a police officer asks for your ID and you are not obliged to show it. Then don't. Reason being they have no right to see it, don't give them a reason to arrest you when you have done nothing wrong. If a rapist asks a woman to show him her t!ts, so he can see if he'll be turned on enough to rape her or not. Then don't. Reason being they have no right to see it, dont give them a reason to rape you when you have done nothing wrong.

 

[Just Me]

BtW there are ample examples of videos in which people decline to show their IDs to officers and by watching the video we can Assume that the officers didnt like it. Yes, I do not think I have ever heard the officer say, "I do not like that you decline to give me your ID."

You do a lot of assuming. I agree, there are plenty of videos showing cops doing bad things. I would hardly lump "offended cops" in with bad cops. If you want to make an issue of cops abusing some authority, this video won't help your case. Sorry.

 

[Father of four]

Like I said, we simply don't know what was said by the cops. This video does not show anything but cops doing what the taxpayers expect of them, which is investigating a complaint. If the cops acted inappropriately I would be with you in criticizing them. The fact is, they did nothing wrong. Leaning in to speak with "Richie" is a way of talking to him without making a spectacle of the situation. Asking him to step off to the side is, again, a way of keeping things low-key. Sorry, there was no "jack-booted-thuggery".

I can agree with you but, at the same time if the guy did nothing wrong and he declines talking to them is he in the wrong? Are the cops in the wrong for not leaving this guy alone then?

 

[Father of four]

You do a lot of assuming. I agree, there are plenty of videos showing cops doing bad things. I would hardly lump "offended cops" in with bad cops. If you want to make an issue of cops abusing some authority, this video won't help your case. Sorry.

I beg to differ. It indeed does. If you Just Me, are somewhere minding your business and the cops come up to you and ask for your ID is it legal for you to decline to give it to them? Not being rude, but why bother you if you have done nothing illegal? If you chose not to comply should the cops then start to bug you and disrupt your peace?

 

[Just Me]

I can agree with you but, at the same time if the guy did nothing wrong and he declines talking to them is he in the wrong? Are the cops in the wrong for not leaving this guy alone then?

He (Richey) did not decline to speak with the cops. He could have and, no, he would not have been in the wrong.
Would the cops be in the wrong if he declined to speak with them and they didn't leave him alone? Now we are getting into areas of speculation, because Richey didn't tell the cops to get lost (which he could have). If he told the cops that he didn't want to talk to them then they probably would have just left (unless they wanted to order lunch). Nobody has to talk to cops, but at the same time, cops can talk to anyone they want because the 1st Amendment still applies to them, even when on duty.
All this video shows is cops talking to some folks. Nothing more. It was probably the most excitement the guy with the camera has had in a long time, so he decided to post it on YT.

 

[Father of four]

OK Just Me, you are right, never mind.

 

[Just Me]

I beg to differ. It indeed does. If you Just Me, are somewhere minding your business and the cops come up to you are ask for your ID is it legal for you to decline to give it to them? Not being rude, but why bother you if you have done nothing illegal? If you chose not to comply should the cops then start to bug you and disrupt your peace?

Yes, it is legal to decline showing cops your ID in a mere encounter, but not a stop.

Whether or not the cops are "bothering", "bugging" or "disrupting my peace" is a matter of opinion.

Cops have to have a legal justification to stop you and they have to tell you what that reason is. Without it, you can ignore them, tell them to p!ss off, or whatever you want. It just makes you seem rude.

 

[Father of four]

Actually I would have given them my ID. If they started being rude then I would probably stop cooperating. Might be time to lawyer up.

 

[Just Me]

Actually I would have given them my ID. If they started being rude then I would probably stop cooperating. Might be time to lawyer up.

You would not need a lawyer to tell them to pound sand.

 

[clambo]

Ever do a ride-along with cops? Yes, they do usually ask for ID when talking to folks. Doesn't mean they suspect anything, it is so they can document their contact (many reasons for that). Asking for ID does NOT "prove" they have an issue with OC. None of the cops I know (and there are many) have an issue with OC because they are 2A supporters. Gee, there could even be cops on this board because they love guns.

Yes, they like to say that they need to see your ID so they can " document their contact " and to some degree I'm sure that is true. However, the primary reason every cop wants to see your ID at the beginning of each contact is to check on your want/warrant status. I'm sure that in any given locale the cops make a good deal of their " busts " picking up repeat offenders who have active arrest warrants. Every cop know that in X amount of contacts there is going to be X percentage of contacts with warrants. This enables the cop to look like he is doing some real policing when in fact he can be quite mediocre and just play the numbers. Especially since most cops know who is likely to have warrants at any given time in their patrol area. If you card the same 100 methheads over and over you get to know who the likley candidates are.

Do I think this is a bad thing ? No, not really. just sorta lazy. I'd probably do it that way if I were a cop. I don't understand why they all wanna suck up to their superiors thought. They are after all, government employees. It's not like they can/will get fired for mediocre performance. Furthermore, if I'm not doing anything illegal, I don't find it necessary to treat them with any more regard than I would the meter reader or dog catcher or any government employee.

 

[Jester316]

Cops asks to see your ID, you show him. He talks to you for 5 minutes and leaves because you have done nothing wrong.

Cop asks to see your ID, you decline. You spend the next 15 minutes trying to "educate" the officer on how you have the right to not show your ID, even though the officer is conducting an investigation into a complaint and now you are interfering with it. You get frustrated, the cop gets frustrated, and youtube gets a new video about "oMG CoP$ Be HarrASSING US Y0".


Every cop I know (and that's a lot as I work very closely with law enforcement) just want to know who they are talking to. Yes, they'll run you for wants/warrants, if you are carrying a gun (as this thread is about), than you shouldn't have any wants/warrants. And if you do, than you should be doing everything in your power to avoid ANY face time with a LEO.

 

[chariot13]

Cops ask to see your ID, don't you show em. He/she talks to you for 5 minutes and leaves because you have done nothing wrong.

Cop asks to see your ID, you decline. You spend the next 5 minutes attempting to "educate" the officer on how you have the right to not show your ID, the officer gets frustrated, you don't care, and youtube gets a new video about "infringement".


Every cop I know (and that's a lot as I work very closely with law enforcement) just want to know whats not their business. Yes, if you're carrying a gun (as this thread is about), then you should be doing everything in your power to avoid ANY face time with a 'overbearing' LEO.

I Corrected all of your mis-information. For free

 

[Certaindeaf]

I just go into a crowded theater and scream "no fire!" for kicks. Perfectly legal. joke

 

[Jester316]

So explain my particular situation than...

I was stopped while walking from class to class. Officer asked to see my ID. He informed me that I matched the description of someone they were looking for. One look at my ID and he said have a good day.


Now, if I had declined to show my ID because I had done nothing wrong I can guarantee you that my conversation with that officer would have been much longer, involved probably a few more officers, and would have ended with a headache.

So please, tell me how not showing a LEO my ID would have made that situation better...

 

[Jester316]

Whoops, double post.

 

[chariot13]

I just go into a crowded theater and scream "no fire!" for kicks. Perfectly legal. joke

You would do no more or less harm than a sign stating 'no guns'.

 

[chariot13]

So explain my particular situation than...

I was stopped while walking from class to class. Officer asked to see my ID. He informed me that I matched the description of someone they were looking for. One look at my ID and he said have a good day.


Now, if I had declined to show my ID because I had done nothing wrong I can guarantee you that my conversation with that officer would have been much longer, involved probably a few more officers, and would have ended with a headache.

So please, tell me how not showing a LEO my ID would have made that situation better...

Freedom is a headache. In fact i've heard of a few Americans dying for it. But what do i know.

 

[Certaindeaf]

You would do no more or less harm than a sign stating 'no guns'.

Perhaps true. Perhaps true also would be some sort of clustergum cascading of unforseen events. fun times