158 gr .357 magnum SD rounds?

[GuyBMeredith]

I am using a 4" K frame and am looking for a big and "slow" self defense round that won't eat up the forcing cone and top strap.

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[oremike]

I shoot 158 XTP's in my Dan Wesson, H-110/W296/AA#9 are my powders of choice for full house loads.

 

[oli700]

Digging through the ammo stash the other day and found a blast from the past. Nyclad's were marketed for indoor shooting as the Teflon coat kept the lead vapor out of the air. Turned out to be a top SD round from short barrels as the dead soft lead is an excellent expander. Don't know if they still make them

 

[Certaindeaf]

Screw the forcing cone. The erosion will stop at a point and not cause structural concerns.. it's cosmetic unless it's a new Scandium etc. J frame or whatever without a blast shield.

 

[clambo]

Back in the day your choices were easier. You had your 158 gr JHP, your 158 gr JSP, and your 158 gr. lead. Im thinking it was a much better time. Pick one of the 158's and go forth and shoot the crap out of it. Forcing cone, smorsing cone. I didnt even know what that was till after I wore out my second or fifth k frame.

 

[GuyBMeredith]

The wisdom is that the lighter weight bullets on top of fast burning powder are culprits in K frame wear. Supposedly 158 gr on the slower powder is what the K frame was intended to be able to survive. I want to shoot plenty of what I carry to make sure I am proficient and don't want to push the now out of production M66 more than needed.

I am looking for commercial ammo to avoid the oft discussed potential of jury ignorance with hand loads.

 

[Certaindeaf]

The real danger, given some loads, is not "eating" the forcing cone or top strap.. it's actual frame stretch/ruination.. sometimes with just a handful of rounds. It is speculated that the sheer jolt of a light bullet with some powders (Blue Dot is not recommended any more for light bullets in the .357 and not at all in the .41 magnum) in light guns against the forcing cone causes immediate stretch. Erosion can and does happen though but fairly slowly. I'd use 2400 for top loads and unique for mid-range general duty.

 

[Certaindeaf]

The wisdom is that the lighter weight bullets on top of fast burning powder are culprits in K frame wear. Supposedly 158 gr on the slower powder is what the K frame was intended to be able to survive. I want to shoot plenty of what I carry to make sure I am proficient and don't want to push the now out of production M66 more than needed.

I am looking for commercial ammo to avoid the oft discussed potential of jury ignorance with hand loads.

When it comes to practice, all you need is something with the same recoil characteristics as your carry load.. easily accomplished with a handload, factory handload or generic factory blasters with the same bullet weight. A jury isn't going to convict you for what you shoot at paper and it's a myth about juries and handloads anyway.
If you "shoot plenty of what I carry", you'll go broke rendering your erosion concerns moot.

 

[GuyBMeredith]

I don't expect to shoot as many defense rounds as I do .38 spl, but would not feel comfortable without shooting enough on a regular basis to be aware of my capabilities and where I need to be worried. I'd rather plan ahead to spend some money making sure the weight I'm carrying isn't useless where it is needed. And that may come down to equivalent handloads with less expensive components.

 

[Certaindeaf]

If you want a 158-170 that'll take the fight out of anyone, just use a cast Keith bullet with Unique or 2400. Factory loads are available of this traditional iteration. The problem is, it'll "over" penetrate a human body.. every time.. the good thing is, it'll never wear out the forcing cone, top strap or barrel.. not in a million rounds.
Something like mentioned in post #3 will not over penetrate, even though it's a Keith style, because it's dead soft lead with a hollow point. Properly fitting lead will not generally flame cut at all because of obturation and.. fit.

 

[Medic!]

With guns like the 19 S&W. I was told the short [light] magnums clear the cylinder before they seal in the forcing cone. The ignited charge jumps the short bullet and this can crack or erode the forcing cone.
I am sure all the model 19 barrels that were out there are gone! And something caused them all to get bought up.

 

[mjbskwim]

Boy, sounds like y'all need to switch to a GP100 and forgetaboutit.
Why carry a gun that you have to worry if it will break?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

125 grain Remington JHP is the manstopper .357 king. the 158 grain loads are for deer/hogs. Any solid bullet will obviate the value of the energy dump the .357 is capable of

 

[Blitzkrieg]

With guns like the 19 S&W. I was told the short [light] magnums clear the cylinder before they seal in the forcing cone. The ignited charge jumps the short bullet and this can crack or erode the forcing cone.
I am sure all the model 19 barrels that were out there are gone! And something caused them all to get bought up.

My wife has shot full house .357 blasters in her K frame S & Ws for near 28 years, no issues

 

[cookie]

I tend to agree with the 125 gn HPs 357 mags as the self defense loadings to use. How many 357 mags are needed to practice with ?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Speer Gold Dot 357 Magnum 125 Grain Clear Gel Test - YouTube


Speer Gold Dot 357 Magnum 158 Grain Clear Gel Test - YouTube

Same bullet design, the two weights tested

 

[Swedish K]

Guess it depends on what you are carrying for... Generally if I am carrying the 686 its in the woods or other areas where I'm more concerned with a less than ideal meeting with aggressive wildlife rather than people so I end up running doubletap 200 gr hardcast. Maybe not ideal for expansion but it certainly does penetrate nicely and I'm guessing it would lock up an engine nicely.

Doubletap 200 grain runs about 1200 fps out of a 4" and 1350 from a 6".

 

[GuyBMeredith]

mjbskwim, I am carrying the K frame for concealed carry until I can afford a mouse gun.

If I were carrying for general use where I didn't mind something as heavy as a GP100 I'd carry my 686+ or 8 shot 627 with the nastiest load I could find.

The wisdom is that the K frame was made for the 158 gr rounds and related powders and that much use of the "hot" 125 gr SD rounds can do damage. The 686 with the slightly beefier components was used to replace the K frame for these loads.

 

[clambo]

It takes quite a lot of 125 gr Jhp to do damage. I use it. Not all day everyday but a box here and there isnt a problem. If I shoot too many bad guys Ill buy another model 19.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

It's not very wise to be more concerned about wearing out a gun more than you being (insert bad thing happening to you)