Other State 14-Year-Old Suspended for Being Seen with an Airsoft Gun on Snapchat

[BSG 75]

Well just saying school Shooting.
Is not right.
Even if two GANG BANGERS.
shoot each other in the school parking lot.
On a Saturday when school is closed.
It's put in as a school Shooting.
So the numbers are tilted in the favor of the anti gun people.

I know. I pointed that out earlier.

Since some people use a very broad definition of a "school shooting" as in any shooting that takes place on school grounds, including in the middle of the night, on a weekend, in the summer, when no students are present, let's stick with school mass shootings - as I referred to earlier - ("a multiple homicide incident in which four or more victims are murdered with firearms, within one event, and in one or more locations in close proximity") that occurred while students were present.

That's why I prefer to talk about school mass shootings since that is what most people think of as a "school shooting", but Wombat insisted on talking about all school shootings so that's why I listed the stats for all school shootings.

The point is whether you are talking about all school shootings or school mass shootings, his claim that there were more school shootings in the 1990s, or 1980s and 1990s compared to today simply isn't correct. He might remember it that way but the facts just don't support it, and he hasn't posted any data to back up his claim, other than to keep repeating it.

Big problem. The data had not been kept or centralized until the 2000s. Meaning your Wikipedia article is inherently flawed.

Where is your data to back up your claim that there were more school shootings in the 1990s, other than that's when you grew up and that's how you remember it?

Unless you can prove there were undocumented school mass shootings in the 1980s and 1990s - seems unlikely since it would be national news - there was 1 in the 80s, 4 in the 90s, 5 in the 2000s, and 7 in the 2010s. Any way you slice it, what you claim isn't true. You can't claim there was more of something without evidence.

Look at the data from the 90s. There were many more.

I looked at the data from the 90s, and there weren't many more. In fact, there were only 1/3 as many as in the 2010s. If you have some other "data from the 90s", I would very much like to see it.

 

[nammac]

Hey now...
There are some teachers that still teach :
The meaning of keeping your word...
Respect and understanding...
The idea that real life ain't Burger King and you can't have it your way...( at least all the time )
Follow through and commitment...
Real problems need real solutions...

Just sayin'... We all ain't like the stereotype.
Andy

No personal offense meant, it's more about the system being that way... I've had the pleasure of having some good teachers for my youngest, so I know there's quality out there, regardless of how bad the system may be...

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Where is your data to back up your claim that there were more school shootings in the 1990s, other than that's when you grew up and that's how you remember it?

Unless you can prove there were undocumented school mass shootings in the 1980s and 1990s - seems unlikely since it would be national news - there was 1 in the 80s, 4 in the 90s, 5 in the 2000s, and 7 in the 2010s. Any way you slice it, what you claim isn't true. You can't claim there was more of something without evidence.

Im looking for the FBI data. I have found some pretty good hard data on the subject before. But the fact is, you are going to see a harsh spike of gang and drug related shootings, (which sites like Mother Jones like to minimize as it doesn't fit the agenda.) Columbine changed how school shootings occur in a lot of ways. But the facts are this.

1) Comprehensive stats were not kept. So of course, the number is going to be far smaller, because of under-reporting.
2) Look at the overall murder rates. United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2017 (I just picked a site with a lot of data, I haven't verified.) overall murder rates have plummeted by raw numbers, even though the population has risen. I would expect that pattern to roughly hold. ~30% decrease in raw numbers with a large population increase. The US is objectively safer now than the 90s.
3) This article is not conclusive, but, I think it shows that I am not pulling this out of my butt. Some polls show parents' growing fears of dangers at school Thinking about it, AP news might have access to some of the best data from times centralized data were not kept.
4) Who is defining mass shootings? Some sources have included a bbgun attack in the past. And how many have to die, or is it be hit? 3? 4? Definitions are NOT consistent.

Types of crime vary by era. Gangs have gone down drastically since the 90s. The type of crime will change

 

[dcfranzen]

I suspect the "zero tolerance" policies for fighting and inadequate response to bullying has had a bigger influence in the increasing numbers of multi-victim shootings than educators are willing to acknowledge.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

No personal offense meant, it's more about the system being that way... I've had the pleasure of having some good teachers for my youngest, so I know there's quality out there, regardless of how bad the system may be...

Like EPS and his comments , I am sure that you nammac weren't talking about me...
But yes our education system has many flaws and when that is coupled with folks who should not be teachers , its makes for a bad situation for sure.

To be clear my "Hey wait minute..." comments about there are some good teachers were indeed more of a general reminder and not aimed at you .
Andy

 

[bbbass]

BB guns, and Airsoft guns are not real guns. They can be useful teaching tools but they aren't real guns. Pellet guns cross the line with lead pellets but that's not what people used for bb gun fights, and the plastic airsoft bbs are pretty harmless even with the most powerful airsoft guns. I've been shot point blank with only a thin t shirt and all I got was a welt. I've also never heard of anyone playing without at least safety glasses.

I thought the object of airsoft and paintball was shooting each other. No???

Hey now...
There are some teachers that still teach :
The meaning of keeping your word...
Respect and understanding...
The idea that real life ain't Burger King and you can't have it your way...( at least all the time )
Follow through and commitment...
Real problems need real solutions...

Just sayin'... We all ain't like the stereotype.
Andy

I don't think much of the La Grande Public School system. Yet, I was pleasantly surprised when the La Grande H.S. baseball coach (Edit: I think he was actually Middle School coach) spoke at a luncheon i recently attended. He was obviously dedicated to "mentoring" the kids. His interface with them went way beyond mere teaching of the sport. He taught them that they represented their school, themselves, and their fellows everywhere they went. His ideals of sportsmanship were extended into every aspect of regular life outside of the actual game. And he was there going to bat for his kids and any other kid when they needed someone. Wow!!!

Agreed and smaller districts are still much more conservative then their big city counterparts.

If La Grande is more conservative, then it's scary when I think there are districts worse than La Grande!!!

 

[Ura-Ki]

I suspect the "zero tolerance" policies for fighting and inadequate response to bullying has had a bigger influence in the increasing numbers of multi-victim shootings than educators are willing to acknowledge.

When I was in Junior/High School in the 70's and early 80's, We Fought things out, We dealt with Bullies with out fists and feet, and we settled things like MEN, usually followed by a hand shake after, and the Teachin Staff usually stood overwatch to make sure things remained mostly civil! No one Stabbed each other, even though most Males carried a Pocket knife of some sort ( Stiletto here ) and NO ONE ever ever ever pulled out a gun ( even though most of us had a Rifle or Shotgun in our car/truck! We all knew what would happen and that kept most from even thinking of doing it! In all the time I was in school, only ONE dude ever brought a hand gun to school and he was arrested, hauled off, jailed, tried, expelled, and banished from anywhere near that school, and he got caught just outside the school grounds and was immediately arrested and hauled off, jailed, tried, and spent some real time in the barred hotel, PLUS, he lost his kinda nice Muscle car the second go around!

Back in those days, kids were taught to be responsible for their words and actions, and if there was a problem, there were ways to deal with things! Each had it's own set of rules and as long as those things were kept from blowing up, nothing ever carried over or escalated! Teachers were allowed to watch and provide a teaching moment while things got worked out, and afterward, every one went about their lives with no serious harm done!

Nothing like that happens these days! I remember when OryGun did Measure 11, which killed being able to sort things out like Men, it basically neutered them and forced things to automatically escalate! What is the next level UP from fistacuffs? YUP knives and Guns! In all their arrogance, our fearless leaders took away the ONE teaching tool that could have prevented what we see today! Outside the Gangbangin, things remained pretty tame pre Measure 11!