10mm or .45cal. What's the difference?

[willseeker]

I've never gotten into 10mm, so I don't know the difference between .45cal. and 10mm.
I've seen some handguns available chambered in both, but it's an either/or. You can't shoot 10mm through a barrel chambered in .45cal and vice-versa, can you?

So here I am showing my ignorance but I want to know why get a 10mm over a .45cal? or a .45cal over a 10mm? Specifically on 1911s'.


Thanks
Will

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[ZachS]

10mm has a smaller diameter bullet, but can be loaded to much, much higher pressures than the .45 acp. It's easily the most powerful commonly available caliber for semiautos.

 

[jordanka16]

They are not interchangeable, the 10mm is a smaller diameter bullet and a longer case.

The 10mm develops quite a bit more energy than even the hottest .45 loads, and some 10mm loads are even hotter than .357 loads.

 

[PhysicsGuy]

10mm is what the .40 S&W was derived from. The 10mm can be loaded to .357 power levels (not as high as hot .357 can be), but still generates a bit more power than .45 acp.

And DO NOT shoot them through the same barrel, as a matter of fact, you're never going to want to shoot a different cartridge through an auto-loader than is specified (this applies for cartridges that headspace on the mouth)

Also people on the internet can argue which calibers are better till the cows come home, but in the end it comes down to what your application is.

 

[willseeker]

I carry a .45 cal 1911, commander length barrel. It's primary function is personal defense. 230 grain store bought rounds.

What would be an application necessitating a more powerful load? Not for everyday carry?

 

[reloadem]

Some manufacturers are building it with a longslide (6" barrel) for hunting.

 

[ZachS]

I carry a .45 cal 1911, commander length barrel. It's primary function is personal defense. 230 grain store bought rounds.

What would be an application necessitating a more powerful load? Not for everyday carry?

hunting, recreation, maybe pin shooting or something like that, paranoia about carrying a powerful enough gun, perhaps even compensating for something ..

from what I've read, it makes a pretty close to ideal subgun/PCR caliber, as recoil is a non-issue in those applications, and standard designs can be adapted for it.

 

[Aquadoc]

I was thinking of getting an Upper for my AR in 10mm $550 is much cheaper than $1500 for a Thompson. 10mm would be a bit better for deer or similar animals, and be a good MOUT gun as the Tommy gun was/is. Though I have my MI Carbine for that. I can reload for .40/10mm so ammo would be a lil cheaper than store bought. BUT in a pistol app Bump the above just depends on what you want, + if you have small hands the 10mm will be less easy to handle than a .45 (all things else equal), .45 ammo is everywhere and 10mm is $$$$$ compared. JMHO

 

[willseeker]

10mms' don't come in commander length?

Why wouldn't you be able to conceal a 10?






Will

 

[HappyRoman]

here's more info on the 10mm than you really wanted to know ( I hope not)

10mm Automatic


Introduced in 1983 in the ill fated Bren Ten autoloading pistol, the 10mm Auto has quickly become one of the most successful cartridges developed during this century. The idea originated with Whit Collins, who assisted in the project by John Adams, Irving Stone, and Jeff Cooper, but the credit for keeping this .40 caliber cartridge alive during its youth has to og to Colt for giving it a permanent home in the excellent Delta Elite version of its famous 1911 Government Model pistol. During 1990, the 10mm Auto gained even more credibility as a self defense cartridge when the FBI abandoned the 9mm Parabellum and officially adopted the larger caliber. Other law enforcement agencies are sure to follow suit. In addition to being an excellent self defense cartridge, the 10mm is powerful enough for use on deer size game at close to medium ranges. This especially holds true when it is loaded to maximum velocities with the heavier bullets and fired in a custom barrel from Bar-Sto, Wilson, or Centaur Systems. When the 150 and 155 grain bullets are down loaded to 1200 fps, the 10mm becomes an excellent cartridge for USPSA/IPSC competition with about the same level of recoil as that of the .38 Super. Recent tests with a Colt Delta Elite fitted with a Centaur barrel and compensator produced consistent accuracy of less than four inches at 50 yards.

This text is based on information from "Cartridges of the World", Hodgdon reloading manual, the cartridge designer and/or own resources.

The Delta Elite is a full size 1911, EAA witness makes a commander size 10mm. A very accurate piece. While I am not Bullseye shooter, Out of the box, brand new, my std loads,6 0f 9 at 25 yards 3" bullseyes. No practicing, no set up, just pure luck..lol

 

[willseeker]

Thanks all! Great history.

Is EAA the only manufacturer of 10s'?


Hey Happy! That's 25 yards not feet?




Will

 

[jordanka16]

Is EAA the only manufacturer of 10s'?

A lot of companies make 10s, Smith & Wesson, Colt, and Glock to name a few. A lot of custom makers also offer 10mm guns.

 

[sillyrabbit]

(For much greater info on the 10mm go to AR15.com click on the 10mm forum)

Disclosure: I have both 45ACP G30 and 10mm G29

10mm shoots @ higher velocities, shoots flatter and will "connect" at greater distances as needed/desired.

45acp carries more "bullet weight" and at clos(er) distances has exceptional "bullet hole-stopping power" however won't penetrate multiple layers of leather and clothing nor more solid objects (ie car) as well as the 10mm

Both make excellent "gelatin cavities" however the 10mm out shines the 45ACP in this particular instance.

The FBI wanted the 10mm (and still does), however some of the women (and small handed people) were having difficulty "qualifying" with the recoil, same thing with the 45ACP.

Then the FBI started worrying about over penetration. So practicing "political correctness"................. and in lieu of shooting lighter weight projectiles, they opted to just down grade the cartridge to 40SW.

Also of note, the FBI, didn't worry about over penetration with the 45.

I have shot both my G45 (45ACP) and my G29 (10mm) immediately followed by my G23 (40sw) and I find the recoil on the G23 "sharper" than my G30! and NO softer than my G29. I find it easier to place quick follow-up accurate groups with my G30 and G29.

I gave my G30 to my wife to shoot (she carries the G23) and even with her smaller hands she found the G30 no stronger in recoil than her G23!

A little "RANT" on another note? What is it for those that keep saying a G29 or G30 can't be carried concealed (easily) because their so BIG and FAT? What? What do you carry.....?

I carry a G30 or a G29 nearly EVERY day! The other days my G32! Either way I carry 7 days a week everywhere (that I legally can) including at home!

I'm not obese nor extremely 'overweight" (OK, OK! 10 pounds ) but that doesn't really "cover my gun"....., and I don't always wear "Hawaiian" shirts or a Sweat shirt to cover my guns either......... and I carry them under a tucked in shirt (in my Com-Tac or Crossbreed holsters) the same way I carry my G32.... and I have NO problems being "caught", "identified", printing, or overly weighted down or "inconvenienced"!

In fact............when I put my G32 and G23 (same frames as G19) and lay them over my G30/29 (same frames), when you include my finger grip extensions I have on both the G29&30...........! The size differences are almost NON-existent!!! between the G29/30 and the G19/23/32....... AND without the finger grip extensions the G29/30 are smaller! in length and height!

If you look up the sizes for G29/30 and the G19/23/32 you find the G17/23/32's are .02 (yep! .02) longer than the "Giant" G29 & 30's...... and the G29/30 are a whopping..... wait for this.................... 2.5mm wider! Wow that's huge isn't it!!!

Can't be concealed? hmmmmmm

By the way.... the width difference?.... holds true for the G26/27/33 AND these guns are also only .12 shorter!"

[and] just for "geewizz"... even the "Monstrosities" the G20 &21 are only 3/4" longer than a G19/23/32 (my thumb is wider that that!) and are LESS than 1/2" taller!

Just my $.02 worth

 

[BigBull 301]

(For much greater info on the 10mm go to AR15.com click on the 10mm forum)

Disclosure: I have both 45ACP G30 and 10mm G29

10mm shoots @ higher velocities, shoots flatter and will "connect" at greater distances as needed/desired.

45acp carries more "bullet weight" and at clos(er) distances has exceptional "bullet hole-stopping power" however won't penetrate multiple layers of leather and clothing nor more solid objects (ie car) as well as the 10mm

Both make excellent "gelatin cavities" however the 10mm out shines the 45ACP in this particular instance.

The FBI wanted the 10mm (and still does), however some of the women (and small handed people) were having difficulty "qualifying" with the recoil, same thing with the 45ACP.

Then the FBI started worrying about over penetration. So practicing "political correctness"................. and in lieu of shooting lighter weight projectiles, they opted to just down grade the cartridge to 40SW.

Also of note, the FBI, didn't worry about over penetration with the 45.

I have shot both my G45 (45ACP) and my G29 (10mm) immediately followed by my G23 (40sw) and I find the recoil on the G23 "sharper" than my G30! and NO softer than my G29. I find it easier to place quick follow-up accurate groups with my G30 and G29.

I gave my G30 to my wife to shoot (she carries the G23) and even with her smaller hands she found the G30 no stronger in recoil than her G23!

A little "RANT" on another note? What is it for those that keep saying a G29 or G30 can't be carried concealed (easily) because their so BIG and FAT? What? What do you carry.....?

I carry a G30 or a G29 nearly EVERY day! The other days my G32! Either way I carry 7 days a week everywhere (that I legally can) including at home!

I'm not obese nor extremely 'overweight" (OK, OK! 10 pounds ) but that doesn't really "cover my gun"....., and I don't always wear "Hawaiian" shirts or a Sweat shirt to cover my guns either......... and I carry them under a tucked in shirt (in my Com-Tac or Crossbreed holsters) the same way I carry my G32.... and I have NO problems being "caught", "identified", printing, or overly weighted down or "inconvenienced"!

In fact............when I put my G32 and G23 (same frames as G19) and lay them over my G30/29 (same frames), when you include my finger grip extensions I have on both the G29&30...........! The size differences are almost NON-existent!!! between the G29/30 and the G19/23/32....... AND without the finger grip extensions the G29/30 are smaller! in length and height!

If you look up the sizes for G29/30 and the G19/23/32 you find the G17/23/32's are .02 (yep! .02) longer than the "Giant" G29 & 30's...... and the G29/30 are a whopping..... wait for this.................... 2.5mm wider! Wow that's huge isn't it!!!

Can't be concealed? hmmmmmm

By the way.... the width difference?.... holds true for the G26/27/33 AND these guns are also only .12 shorter!"

[and] just for "geewizz"... even the "Monstrosities" the G20 &21 are only 3/4" longer than a G19/23/32 (my thumb is wider that that!) and are LESS than 1/2" taller!

Just my $.02 worth

You can add my $.02 to yours! You are right on the mark

 

[willseeker]

Man o' man Sillyrabbit. That was some discourse!

Not sure that I agree that a .45 round won't penetrate multiple layers of leather. But then I've never tested it.

Has anyone stacked leather to see what penetration a .45 round has compared to a 10mm? Don't know if my indoor range would allow it.

One of the reasons I gave up on my P3AT was my uneasiness with it penetrating winter clothing...but never tested that either.



Will

 

[Jack Frost]

The 10mm will shoot flat to 75yards where the 45acp will start to drop off a 50yards.

 

[NoAim]

The 10mm will shoot flat to 75yards where the 45acp will start to drop off a 50yards.

10mm 200gr @ 100 yards drops 6.4" (MV = 1172, TV = 1014)

45ACP 200gr @ 100 yards drops 8.7" (MV = 1013, TV = 892)

At 75 yards there's 1" of drop difference.

 

[captqc]

Here's my 10mm. Smaller, lighter bullet than the .45 but it moves faster. Most people you ask will say it more powerful and based upon some evidence I've seen that is true. I saw a one inch thick plate of some type of clear plastic that was shot with various calibers and the 10mm did damage similar to the .44 mag, both of which was quite a bit more than the .45 hit. Don't get me wrong I love my .45 ACP but when I'm out and about I carry this 10mm.

 

[willseeker]

Here's my 10mm. Smaller, lighter bullet than the .45 but it moves faster. Most people you ask will say it more powerful and based upon some evidence I've seen that is true. I saw a one inch thick plate of some type of clear plastic that was shot with various calibers and the 10mm did damage similar to the .44 mag, both of which was quite a bit more than the .45 hit. Don't get me wrong I love my .45 ACP but when I'm out and about I carry this 10mm.

Very nice DW CBOB in 10mm!
Sweet grips too!

I think they're still going to make the 10mm in 2010 aren't they?
Or is Dan Wesson making all their bobtails in the Valor line now?

Will

 

[PhysicsGuy]

Very nice DW CBOB in 10mm!
Sweet grips too!

I think they're still going to make the 10mm in 2010 aren't they?
Or is Dan Wesson making all their bobtails in the Valor line now?

Will

They aren't making any classic commander bobtails or 10mms this year