$1000 rifle expectations

[3MTA3]

One thing I'll add is that while I'd trust a gun that I assembled or modified, but not necessarily one that someone else has done the same with. Neither would I expect the reverse since you don't know my background or skills.

A name brand brings an amount of trust based on the reputation of the manufacturer. So, yeah, if I had a choice I'd take the 6920 over someone's build unless I was familiar with their work.

But, like I said in the end they are just tools to me and I care far more about how well they do their jobs than whose name is on the label. Not saying by any means that I don't appreciate some of the absolute works of art I have seen.

For me a $1K budget would be $400 rifle, $600 ammo, then I'd still have to sneak sights, scopes, sling, etc.., past the Mrs..

 

[Member 3687]

If you go through my forum history you will find I got my first Colt SP1 back in 1980 when I was stationed at Whidbey Island and then started building them in the late 80s when only a few companies made parts. Mainly Colt, Bushmaster and Olympic arms and Shot Gun News was in paper form.

A lot has changed since then with the amount of companies that make parts and the quality of the parts.

 

[mhayd93]

Spend 700-900$ on high quality parts, assemble yourself (properly), and then have yourself a 1500-2000$ AR-15.

Once you cross the 700-800$ threshold on a factory AR, I think you are really paying for 1. Branding, 2. More attention to detail/better QC, and 3. "Upgraded" accessories (handguards, grips, butt stock, trigger, etc.)

Point 3 is where the additional value is most warranted in my opinion, especially if you are talking a rifle with a mil spec trigger vs a Geissele. However, whether that counts as an upgrade worthy of increased cost is in the eye of the beholder.

As for reliability, I would expect most sub-1000$ rifles to be just as functional/durable as rifles that cost twice as much in the current state of ARs!

 

[Erick]

For a grand you can get a decent used mid-tier AR. Anything less is not anything you can bet your life on regardless of what your cousin Bubba tells you. Mid-tier rifles start around $1500 unless they're on sale. High end ones start about $2500 on up. A thousand dollar rifle is the cheapest you would want to get and not expect problems, whether it's a QC issue, poor quality components, or just sub-par assembly. I know this will upset the Anderson, Davidson Defense, and BCA guys but those brands are just plain dog bubblegum

 

[mhayd93]

For a grand you can get a decent used mid-tier AR. Anything less is not anything you can bet your life on regardless of what your cousin Bubba tells you. Mid-tier rifles start around $1500 unless they're on sale. High end ones start about $2500 on up. A thousand dollar rifle is the cheapest you would want to get and not expect problems, whether it's a QC issue, poor quality components, or just sub-par assembly. I know this will upset the Anderson, Davidson Defense, and BCA guys but those brands are just plain dog bubblegum

I have seen a few high dollar ARs fail; not just a one-off either, but assembly or components-related failures that were repetitive in nature.

Without quantifying how an AR arrived at its price point, you cannot just say it is good because it is 1500 or 2000$

There are definitely plenty of ARs in the 600-800$ range that are just as functional and reliable as those that are "high" tier; especially from the perspective of civilian ownership.

 

[3MTA3]

I have seen a few high dollars ARs fail; not just a one-off either, but assembly or components related failures that were repetitive in nature.

Without quantifying how an AR arrived at its price point, you cannot just say it is good because it is 1500 or 2000$

There are definitely plenty of ARs in the 600-800$ range that are just as functional and reliable as those that are "high" tier; especially from the prospect of civilian ownership.

I know a mechanical engineer and former marine scout sniper that did some builds based on Anderson forged lowers. He is VERY pleased with the results and I would take one of his builds over Colt, BCM, etc., without hesitation.

 

[ma96782]

I see it as.....
Jokes aside.....
About the Govt buying from the cheapest contractor and all that. So well....the military uses a hell of a lot of M4s (M16s, etc...). And the Govt. buys and fires a hell of a lot of the supplied spec ammo. And then....I'm assuming they have the military spec parts in the inventory.

So.....
If/When a part breaks (or fails)....
They simply change the faulty part.....and move on.

That being said....
I don't want to let a failure of a small part rule my life. Yeah....things happen and parts can fail. Fix it and move on.

However.....
If/When you are getting frequent breakages/failures. Maybe, it's time to take a closer look.

A big part of cleaning your firearm is also inspection.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Flopsweat]

There's been a lot of good advice here, including building your own out of quality components. It's easier than you think. We call it building but it's really just assembly.

The best two points I saw here:

I have found that a good lower parts group is the key more than anything. Good heat treating on the little parts and springs do make a difference so I do use BCM lower parts kits as I have not had one fail yet and I like the grip that comes with them. This is not to say they can't or won't break but I have not had one do it yet.

This is very true and most of the middle tier manufacturers seem to use reasonably good quality lower parts.

One thing I'll add is that while I'd trust a gun that I assembled or modified, but not necessarily one that someone else has done the same with. Neither would I expect the reverse since you don't know my background or skills.

This is super important. If your "sketchy" friend is building an AR, do not go to him for build advice and especially don't buy a home built AR from him. I don't buy home built ARs at all although I do build them myself and help others with builds. From a $350 home build I would expect a part from the BCG (Bolt Carrier Group) or LPK (Lower Parts Kit) to be the first thing to fail because he's got to be using the cheapest crap he can find. Some will be OK and some will not. The sights are probably going to suck because there's no room in $350 for good sights. They may not necessarily fail, but they may not be very nice. If he assembles the upper himself rather than buying an assembled one, the gas block and gas tube are easy to screw up if you're not paying attention.

 

[KEMOSABEJR1]

All lower and upper receivers come from one of 5 forges and get stamped with A name. As long as it is milspec, run it, lube it, and feed it.

 

[orygun]

Pornhub?

Wrong kinda "gun".

A big part of cleaning your firearm is also inspection.

Aloha, Mark

This^^^

 

[arakboss]

You are not going to lose much money reselling an AR15 you bought or built for $350. I suspect you will lose money on a gucci AR15 you put together for $2500. Assuming the same level of equipment I can't comprehend what would make one AR worth $2500 and another worth $350. Of course I am a cheap dastard so there's that.

I bought a Colt LE6920 for $750ish a couple of years back and the member had put a $200+ trigger and a DD free float handguard on it. I was only willing to pay about what I would for a used stock rifle and evidently nobody else was willing to pay more either.

My advice is build what you want but don't expect to get all your money back if you end up selling it.

 

[3MTA3]

All lower and upper receivers come from one of 5 forges and get stamped with A name. As long as it is milspec, run it, lube it, and feed it.

Very true, but they get sent out unfinished then get hogged out and drilled by the purchaser, either directly or through a third party. Even Colt buys the raw forgings before finishing them in house.

The finishing steps are what make the difference between good, great and they tried. That said, my uppers and lowers are all Aero Precision, Ruger, and PSA. They all fit and work together flawlessly with the PSA having a barely visible light gap when you look through it closely.

Now, do I think my bargain PSA pistol upper is all that and a bag of chips? Not at all. It's a bunch of parts working within their spec and I have realistic expectations. Is it's barrel as accurate as the Black Holes I used on my builds? Not a chance, but this is a 10.5" pistol vs a DMR setup. It doesn't need .5MOA, it needs minute of bad guy close by. A match barrel that needs to cool down to retain it's accuracy is a waste of money in CQB with likely high volumes of fire. It needs to go bang evey time and not malfunction, jam, or have feeding issues. It came with a Toolcraft bolt made to the same specs and with the same materials and testing as the ones they sell to .mil.

IMO most of the people hung up on a brand name have never done a build or major tear down and reassembly. They likely get a bit stressed when it's time to disassemble their bolt for maintenance. That's OK, not everybody who drives a car needs to be a mechanic or even know how an engine, transmission, etc. work.

To those of use that do it's not a mystery and we have no fears and fewer misconceptions. The rest will continue to live in the fear of the unknown and make the most prudent choices they can based on what they have experienced but most likely watched on Youtube, read on the Internet, or what their buddy said. It's still valid, since if you don't have confidence in your equipment it will undermine your own confidence when the rubber meets the road. Just don't get the unearned attitude that everything else is junk.

 

[Member 3687]

The other thing to remember is only a hand full of companies build every part for their gun. Most contract out parts they are not set up to run and this is usually the little parts.

Most companies when they first got started contracted everything this included BCM, DD, Colt and so on so if you have an older gun, it may be someone else's parts made to that companies spec. I have a number of BCM complete uppers built before they made complete guns and most were contract parts that I put on Anderson lowers with BCM LPKs. ALG was doing BCM trigger kits for a long time and they still sell them on their site.

So do your home work as you may find out that the gun you thought was made by one company was really a contract gun with just a few parts made in house.

I will say over the last few years the top names are producing most if not all their parts. but not all of them.

 

[gunrnr]

Buy the cheap gun with a floating handguard. Then buy a decent aftermarket trigger for $100.00 or less/
Take the money you have saved and buy ammo, then go out and spend it

 

[osprey]

While I am ok with the advice to build to get more bang for your buck, it would come with one caveat. I would not advise this route if you do not have many builds under your belt, unless you can enlist a very experienced builder. Anybody can throw an AR together but it takes formal training and or much research and and relevant experience with the various components and how the interact with each other to build a quality/reliable AR. While after 12 or so years and upwards of 30 builds, I have a pretty good grip on what makes them tick, most of my builds are for recreation and if I could only grab one it would be a factory built Noveske that was my first AR. I have thoroughly vetted the Noveske and disassembled, inspected and gauged every bit of it to know it is gtg. Unless you have the experience or help resources available for a build, I would bump the budget up slightly and buy a bcm, colt, geissele, noveske or one of the other well respected brands.

 

[Longwalkhome]

I don't know, I got a black Friday deal from palmetto with a complete upper assembled and all the lower parts for $419 and free shipping. Assembly of parts like this isn't a "build " in my opinion and most anyone can do it. Lowers are still easy to find and an Anderson stripped lower is under $100.

You tube tells how to assemble parts and its no big deal.

 

[osprey]

I don't know, I got a black Friday deal from palmetto with a complete upper assembled and all the lower parts for $419 and free shipping. Assembly of parts like this isn't a "build " in my opinion and most anyone can do it. Lowers are still easy to find and an Anderson stripped lower is under $100.

You tube tells how to assemble parts and its no big deal.

That is great but don't expect the reliability or longevity of one of the factory built brands I mentioned. It is possible to get a unicorn but don't expect it. PSA is cheap because it sources parts that are cheaper to make and are assembled by minimum wage employees and QC is laughable. Yes anyone can assemble an AR but it takes training/ experience to tell the difference in part quality and how to use proper build techniques. I don't think PSA employees know how to properly torque a barrel nut as most I have removed have been well over torqued. I could go on with a laundry list of sins I have found on PSA builds but for the average user many work fine and I do think PSA has a good niche.

 

[Lazyfaire]

A quality AR must have a decent quality barrel and receiver. You can then upgrade the trigger and you have a shooter. Handguards and $$ parts kits can be unnecessary, unless you want to.
You can buy a quality AR for $1000 off the shelf, or you can build your own.

 

[Longwalkhome]

That is great but don't expect the reliability or longevity of one of the factory built brands I mentioned. It is possible to get a unicorn but don't expect it. PSA is cheap because it sources parts that are cheaper to make and are assembled by minimum wage employees and QC is laughable. Yes anyone can assemble an AR but it takes training/ experience to tell the difference in part quality and how to use proper build techniques. I don't think PSA employees know how to properly torque a barrel nut as most I have removed have been well over torqued. I could go on with a laundry list of sins I have found on PSA builds but for the average user many work fine and I do think PSA has a good niche.

Entry level that is good enough for the money you spend. Wear it out training then buy a better gun for the long haul. Just my opinion.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Entry level that is good enough for the money you spend. Wear it out training then buy a better gun for the long haul. Just my opinion.

This! Years ago I was shooting High Power in Phx, AZ and a new 'just out of the box' shooter game up to the gunsmith that was there* and asked what he should spend money on to make it a better shooter. The smith didn't even look at the rifle, just told the guy "Buy a bunch of ammo and when you can out shoot the rifle come back and tell me what to do to make it better"


*Wish I could remember his name, kind of well known, worked on Garand's and with Robar on their rifles