10 dead 39 wounded at colorado theater shooting

[CharonPDX]

I carry a Keltec .380 without night sights. Thinking about this situation made me question whether I would've returned fire or not. Dark so I can't see my sights, people running around everywhere, and the fact that mouse guns aren't much for accuracy at a distance.

Let's say I fired two rounds. One missed and killed a kid, but the second got lucky and dropped the shooter. Maybe I saved the lives of 10 people, but I killed one who didn't deserve it in the process.

I only write this because so many people are saying "if only there had been someone with a ccw in that theater."

This is just for discussion as I am not sure how I would've handled it. One thing is for sure, though, and that is that I am going to get a crimson trace for my .380.

Yeah, each situation is different. If the shooter had killed "only" one other person by the time you acted, you would be vilified for causing as much innocent death as him. If you had done it right at the end, you would be decried by some rambo-types as not having acted soon enough.

THIS situation, with a well-prepared, apparently armored, assailant who had some sort of smoke/tear gas, would have been *VERY* difficult to "return fire" in. Unless you were right next to him, literally point-blank, I could see all but the most reckless concealed carrier choosing NOT to return fire because of the difficult shooting conditions.

Remember, you concealed carry to protect yourself and those immediately with you. Trying to "play the hero" in some situations would only make it worse. What if there were two CCWers in there at opposite sides, and they started shooting too? Even if the gunman was downed, you'd have two people still shooting, quite possibly both thinking the other is another bad guy, continuing to shoot at each other, causing even more casualties?

Too many "what ifs". Concealed carry for yourself - don't try to insist that "if someone had been carrying" would have changed anything. (Just look at the Gabby Giffords shooting - a legal concealed carrier nearby who went TOWARD the shooting nearly shot one of the people who was taking down the shooter!)

 

[coctailer]

I could see all but the most reckless concealed carrier choosing NOT to return fire because of the difficult shooting conditions.

You don't know what the shooting conditions were. That's the thing.

With a gun, you at least have a CHOICE, and a CHANCE.

Sometimes it is good to be "gung-ho"
Sometime its right to "play hero"

 

[retiredgal]

So sad, so crazy, I can't see how we could prevent this type crazy, well planned person from doing these things again ? Changing the laws won't stop them. It will just stop us from our interest and hobbies with guns.

Expect the hue and cry to be very loud very quickly about gun control and making us safer by doing it ? What a terrible mess from so many perspectives.

 

[coctailer]

Stop the religious argument now.

Petty arguments in this thread are a dishonor to the dead.

 

[mance]

Expect the hue and cry to be very loud very quickly about gun control and making us safer by doing it ?

Not according to this article:

Colorado shooting unlikely to spur changes in gun laws

 

[Velzey]

I have feared something like this would happen ever since Beslan...

My heart goes out to all the victims and families.

I doubt in the mayhem that many could get a shot at him...People running, smoke, darkness. He was well prepared, head / chest and neck protection (so they say) I am curious as to what the neck protection was? Chairs are all bolted to the floor leaving nothing to throw other than food and drink.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

He was well prepared, head / chest and neck protection (so they say) I am curious as to what the neck protection was?

From what i've read he had on a gas mask, a turtleneck, and a tactical vest.
It'd be good protection from UV rays, not so much from bullets.

That's according to a few news sources who got their information from panicked victims. Who knows if they are correct.

 

[Burt Gummer]

"While screenings of The Dark Knight Rises are currently proceeding as scheduled around the country, the National Association of Theaters said earlier today it was working with the Department of Homeland Security to better ensure a safe movie going experience for all theatergoers. The AMC chain of theaters has also banned people from coming in costume to watch the film."

I'll probably pass on going to movies in the future once DHS does their thing and ruins the experience, kind of like the TSA ruined the joy of going on vacation.

 

[spider]

Wonder if he can be tried as an enemy combatant since he was all suited up and such, at least he won't have rights then.....

 

[Riot]

FYI this is the latest (posting to squash some of the speculation)

*There was only one shooter

Investigators believe the shooter acted alone and not as part of a terrorist group.

"We are not looking for any other suspects," Oates told reporters. "We are confident that he acted alone, but we will do a thorough investigation to make sure that is the case."

Police say Colorado shooting suspect James Holmes had 2 pistols, assault rifle, shotgun - The Washington Post

*Mr Holmes was possibly wearing body armor from head to his legs

Holmes, an honors student and Ph.D. candidate at a nearby college with a clean arrest record, allegedly entered the movie auditorium wearing a ballistics helmet, bulletproof vest, bulletproof leggings, gas mask and gloves. He detonated multiple smoke bombs, and then began firing at viewers in the sold-out auditorium, police said today.

Oates said the assailant was dressed all in black, wearing a "ballistic helmet," a bulletproof vest, leggings, a throat protector, a groin protector, a gas mask and protective gloves. He declined to speculate on a motive for the massacre or say whether Holmes was answering questions from police.

Police say Colorado shooting suspect James Holmes had 2 pistols, assault rifle, shotgun - The Washington Post

*Holmes booby-trapped his apartment

Chief Oates earlier today said that police, bomb squads and the ATF have found a large number of explosive devices and trip wires at Holmes' apartment and have not yet decided how to proceed without setting off explosions.

Colorado Movie Theater Shooting: Suspect Bought 4 Guns, 6,000 Rounds of Ammunition in Past 60 Days - ABC News

*The weapons found were two glock pistols (G22 and a G23), a S&W AR-15 and a Remington 870 Shotgun

Authorities recovered two Glock pistols, a Remington 12-gauge shotgun and a Smith & Wesson AR-15 assault rifle. Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates said there was "pretty significant evidence" that the shotgun, the assault rifle and at least one of the pistols were used in the attack.

In Aurora, James Holmes carried a .40-caliber Glock along with a shotgun and an assault rifle into the movie theater where he killed 12 people and wounded dozens more, according to federal and Colorado authorities. A second .40-caliber Glock was discovered in his car outside the theater.

Glock semiautomatic pistol links recent mass shootings - The Washington Post

After the attack in Aurora, authorities seized a Glock G22 and a Glock G23, both .40 caliber pistols, one Remington 870 Express Tactical 12-gauge shotgun and one Smith & Wesson M&P .223 caliber semiautomatic rifle, the federal official said.

Colorado Shooting Suspect Avoided Gun Reporting Rule - Bloomberg

*Current death toll is at 12 with 59 wounded
Gunman kills 12, wounds 59 at 'Batman' premiere in Colorado | Reuters

 

[Bigfoot]

From what i've read he had on a gas mask, a turtleneck, and a tactical vest.
It'd be good protection from UV rays, not so much from bullets.

That's according to a few news sources who got their information from panicked victims. Who knows if they are correct.

He was armored up. Ballistic helmet, vest, throat protector, groin protector, ballistic leggings. Looks like all he gave you was a face shot and he's dressed in all black, in the dark with gas messing up your vision. Tough to plan against or stop a smart, evil guy.

 

[FourTeeFive]

People act like getting shot while wearing ballistic armor is no big deal. I'm pretty sure a couple of center-mass shots would at least distract him, perhaps with time to get some other rounds into soft tissue or skull.

So far none of the major press has mentioned this was a victim-disarmament zone.

Here's the latest news that I've read:

Colorado Movie Theater Shooting: Suspect Bought 4 Guns, 6,000 Rounds of Ammunition in Past 60 Days - ABC News

 

[spider]

I'm sad, whats next? Costco? Little league baseball games? Skate rinks? What more can lunatics f up in this world of ours.

 

[thurston24]

People act like getting shot while wearing ballistic armor is no big deal. I'm pretty sure a couple of center-mass shots would at least distract him, perhaps with time to get some other rounds into soft tissue or skull.[/url]

That's what I was thinking. I have heard that it hurts pretty bad to get shot in a vest. Also, there are different levels of protection for vests which may mean that a certain round could penetrate the vest. I don't know how the protection levels work and if one will stop a 9mm but not a 40 S&W, or a 45 ACP, but even so, if he were shot a couple of times, it could have hurt him.

I went to Batman today and carried. I don't know if the theater has a rule against it or not but damned if I'm going to be a victim when I go to the movies. I couldn't imagine being there and watching people being slaughtered and able to do nothing. I hope the theater owners in Colorado are sued through their teeth because they enabled this by violating people's second amendment rights. They didn't participate in the shooting but they enabled it.

 

[JackThompson]

I have to speak my mind, I'm sorry for those of you that feel its an inappropriate response in this thread.

1. This stinks of govt conspiracy, and an establishment that will sell guns and grenades to Mexican drug cartels (Fast and Furious) wouldn't blink at slaughtering a theater of men, women and children. That is evil and needs to be seen with wide open eyes.
2. I believe in freedom of religion, but this statement (and any defense of that statement that followed) struck me as insensitive, and uncalled for "I can only say this is what happens when you turn from God."

I remember talking to my grandmother when my brother died of Aids back in 1993 after spending months wasting away to a skeleton. She said "That's just Gods punishment for being gay"... That comment left a scar that never really healed between me and that woman.

If your religion requires you to make those insensitive comments when people die, I might need to find an ignore button on this forum, because I have no time for you.

To the rest. Life is precious, and take care of you and yours, and my thoughts go out to the families.

 

[revmedia]

It's clear from reading posts here as well as every single media report I've read, that nearly no one has a clue how ballistic vests work. At best, one center mass shot from a medium caliber round will leave the shooter on the ground, probably with broken ribs. Officers have died from shots even while wearing a vest. Not from the round puncturing the vest, but from the force of impact. If you've got a .45 with 8 rounds and you put enough on target, you've got plenty of time to close in on him and end the threat. Most likey he would have ran as soon as the return fire started, but even if he didn't it's pretty difficult to fight through broken ribs.

People act like getting shot while wearing ballistic armor is no big deal. I'm pretty sure a couple of center-mass shots would at least distract him, perhaps with time to get some other rounds into soft tissue or skull.

So far none of the major press has mentioned this was a victim-disarmament zone.

Here's the latest news that I've read:

Colorado Movie Theater Shooting: Suspect Bought 4 Guns, 6,000 Rounds of Ammunition in Past 60 Days - ABC News

 

[Swedish K]

Anyone want to lay odds that he is declared incompetent? He was on the fast track to PHD and by all accounts was doing well in his masters program. He had filed paperwork toward dropping out of school and does this. He is 24 years old. All things fit in with schizophrenia related psychotic break. Typical onset of schizophrenia occurs between 16 and 28 years of age. Not saying that it should make a difference or trying to defend his actions and from my point of view I don't care if he is declared insane I still think execution or life without is in order for the shooter.

 

[darkminstrel]

He was on the fast track to PHD and by all accounts was doing well in his masters program. He had filed paperwork toward dropping out of school and does this. He is 24 years old. All things fit in with schizophrenia related psychotic break.

This info is what grabbed me too. I can see your average Joe doing something like this out of anger, frustration, hopelessness, etc. This guy was of a high order intelligence though. His motivations are going to be really interesting if he ever breaks.

 

[codezilla]

For the UN Gun Treaty conspiracy theory crowd: Colorado Batman shooting shows obvious signs of being staged

 

[LyleLovett666]

Even if armored,aren't you going feel quite a bit of "discomfort"if shot?I remeber as a kid having one of my fellow classmates,who's dad was a cop come in and talk to us.One of the questions he was asked was about bullet proof vests.I still remember him describing being shot with a vest as being hit with a sledge hammer.Target aqusition would have been hard once the tear gas started,but still I have to think that if a few rounds could have been fired into the shooter,despite the armor,hewould have been laid out.Easy to say sitting in the comfort of home.