Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

‘ISIS Delenda Est’—What the Romans Knew About Winning a War

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Charliehorse, Nov 22, 2015.

  1. Charliehorse

    Charliehorse Cascade Mts - State of Jefferson USA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    938
  2. boogerhook

    boogerhook Seattle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,153
    Likes Received:
    1,224
    the problem with fighting terrorism is that there are asymmetrical rules of engagement: Terrorists target civilians foremost, and we respond to fight a distributed army of small independently operating terror cells. It's impossible to beat them with traditional war fare. We should activate the militia - along the lines of recent Sheriff's calls to arm deputies while being civilians, and the call of Secretary General of Interpol who suggested armed civilians as a first line of defense.

    Another effort should be to fight the ideology that drives these jihadists. It's the root cause. That's slightly more difficult, but worth looking at. Get them a job. Get education for their children. Empower the women in these regions - that's tough with Islam - but that would certainly end much of the BS.
     
  3. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,427
    Likes Received:
    7,680
    Sounds like a great 20 year plan,but by that time there will be new recruits in the fight.
    WE would have to change and except islam. they will never except christianity
    the children have the koran for their education
    And empower the women that are loading the magazines for the jihadis? Half of the women are all for this
     
  4. Kid@Heart

    Kid@Heart Vancouver, USA Cynic Lifetime Supporter Diamond Supporter

    Messages:
    611
    Likes Received:
    838
    I agree with part of your premise. We should fight the ideology.

    ISIS is hunting down Christians- Beheading, crucifying and burning them alive. Iran is building a nuclear weapon as well as imprisoning US Citizens, charging them with spying and sentencing them to long prison terms. Saudi Arabia is financing the Wahhabi brainwashing schools worldwide.

    Our government has done little to stem the tide and has no desire to stand up and lead.
    Take off the gloves and fight it.

    If you see a person with a firearm in a war zone, kill them.

    If they run into a mosque, level it.

    Give them a job clearing the rubble from their cities.

    I have no interest in rebuilding their society, educating their children, building roads or schools. They are just targets.

    Send in the military like we did in Germany in 1945. Then leave. They can rebuild their own damn sandbox.

    If they don't learn to leave us alone the first time, go back to the top of the list and re-run the exercise as often as needed.

    Stop being so nice. Treat the Middle East like Carthage.
     
    BrentN, 308, Capn Jack and 6 others like this.
  5. nammac

    nammac I-5 Corridor - West of Portland Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    2,150
    Likes Received:
    5,421
    Exactly!!!! Treat it like Carthage. Time to stop pussyfooting around and just simply level them....

    It's our responsibility to do so, with the help of the French and Russians. Lest we'll be mopping up the mess on American streets.

    If we are truly trying to rid the world of terrorism, then follow the Romans example...
     
  6. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,829
    Likes Received:
    7,172
    Didn't click. I don't think that they ever really "won the "war". What they did though, for like 1500 continuous years, was kill the muslims in a wholesale manner lest they become overwhelmed/taken over. It was a continuous and bloody fight on an epic scale.
    And then the Byzantines (Germans) steered/took over the "Roman empire" and then the plague happened.
    So what does history tell us? See third sentence.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
    40calruler likes this.
  7. mrblond

    mrblond Salem OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,948
    Likes Received:
    1,788
    You have to remember also that Rome did not defeat their enemy's, they eradicated them. Carthage, The Celtic peoples, the Dacians, all wiped out except for a few places for the Celts.

    The Romans didint bubblegum around.
     
    nammac likes this.
  8. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,829
    Likes Received:
    7,172
    But remember, the "Barbarians" didn't destroy Rome, they operated it, after a fashion. So it was that, the plague, and the muslims that felled Rome.
     
  9. mrblond

    mrblond Salem OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,948
    Likes Received:
    1,788
    well, if your talking about the Eastern Empire then yes, but not till 1453, a millennium after the Western Empire fell.
    There were no Muslims untill the 8th century.
     
  10. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,829
    Likes Received:
    7,172
    Well then it's all settled!
    Save for the murderous bastards to this day.
     
  11. Sgt Nambu

    Sgt Nambu Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    7,588
    Likes Received:
    10,706
    Five words, There is no collateral damage!
    Just damage! You didn't want death rained down on you? Should have handled these buggers yourself then!
    Any effeminate, slinking lib spy's reading? This is the voice of reason! I'm waiting for some terminally ill patriot to crash a big Dirty Bomb on Mecca. Kerpow, right on the rock! They can worship it again in 20,000 years!

    Cato the Elder would be proud!
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
    Stomper, Kid@Heart and nammac like this.
  12. Kid@Heart

    Kid@Heart Vancouver, USA Cynic Lifetime Supporter Diamond Supporter

    Messages:
    611
    Likes Received:
    838
    55 gallon drums of bacon fat dropped from 30,000 feet would work.
     
    Sgt Nambu and nammac like this.
  13. mrblond

    mrblond Salem OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,948
    Likes Received:
    1,788
    I'd prefer a MOAB myself ;)
     
    Slobray and Sgt Nambu like this.
  14. Slobray

    Slobray Yelm, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    1,576
    I was thinking we go old school with numerous "Little Boys" and an equal amout of "Fat Men". If they were good enough for Japan, they would be good enough for the Islamic State.


    Ray
     
    nammac likes this.
  15. Goosebrown

    Goosebrown Beaverton Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer

    Messages:
    961
    Likes Received:
    1,449
    You should read the link. Carthage predates Moslems by 8 centuries. And the Romans didn't kill loads of them till the last time. Their solution though involved killing all the men taking the women and children as slaves then destroying the city of Carthage and pouring salt on the remains and poisoning the wells.

    We really can't do that any more.

    The Romans won by absolute war and permanent occupation. They lost millions of men doing it too over the second and third Punic war. Hundreds of thousands at a go sometimes.

    Sounds like a good solution but it's not.
     
  16. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,431
    Likes Received:
    5,705
    A FAE filled with bacon fat....Seriously though. Last time we went to war to WIN, we won both World Wars. Germany and Japan ceased to be bad actors on the world stage after they were crushed. That's the lesson. I could give a rat's fat fanny if the rest of the world doesn't like us....hell, they don;t even have to respect us but by God with the right commander in chief they might fear us. It wouldn't hurt the global economy at all. WE OWN THE SEA.
    NATO members should each supply a mech division and in 6 months the caliphate is a memory and flat out house by house disarm Syria and Iraq. Rinse and repeat as necessary for those 6 months. If Iran misbehaves......a couple hundred TLAMS in downtown Tehran...
    There was PAX ROMANA for decades because the Romans gave you two choices, assimilate or annihilation.
    Brutus Out
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
    nammac likes this.
  17. David Bowman

    David Bowman Beaverton OR Archer Defense Concepts

    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    462
    Two things need to happen: Islamic version of the Reformation (in which it was decided that killing people to convert them did not swell the numbers at Sunday Services) AND (this is important), laying waste in wholesale fashion to large numbers of people and places in Muslim countries.

    We need to leave enough of them alive to tell the story for a 1000 years of what we did there as a warning to not fudge around with the bearded men in camo shirts.

    One will go naturally follow the other.
     
  18. Goosebrown

    Goosebrown Beaverton Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer

    Messages:
    961
    Likes Received:
    1,449
    That wasn't the lesson of the Reformation, although in time it was probably the lesson of the Counter Reformation.
     
  19. Kid@Heart

    Kid@Heart Vancouver, USA Cynic Lifetime Supporter Diamond Supporter

    Messages:
    611
    Likes Received:
    838
    I believe you missed the whole point of the analogy. It isn't about the enslavement of the non-combatants or the total annihilation of the population. It is about the determination to degrade the enemy's will to fight to the point they give up and stop, forever. In the case of the Punic Wars, Carthage refused to quit battling Rome, even though they had repeatedly lost battles and sued for peace. The next generation of men would raise another army and away they would go.

    Actually, we can. My father was in the Navy in World War 2 and fought the Japanese in the Pacific. Except for enslaving the women and children, it's pretty much what we did to them.

    That was the whole point of my previous post. Absolute war, no occupation.

    Losses like that are to be expected when you stand toe-to-toe with another army, hacking away with short swords until one side is dead. I believe we have the technology to be pretty effective from a little further away now.

    If you go back to the news reports coming out of the Iraq War, there were almost no US casualties for the invasion, dash to Baghdad or the crushing of the Republican Guard. The majority of the casualties happened in the aftermath as we tried to rebuild a medieval society into a modern Progressive Utopia. We should have left after crushing their military and destroying their arms.

    I took your advice and read the linked story.

    I still believe it is a good solution. It worked in Japan. Worked in Germany. Worked in Italy. Worked in the Philippines. Worked in Mexico. Hell, it worked on the Confederacy.
     
  20. Sstrand

    Sstrand La Grande OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,772
    Likes Received:
    2,695
    Two word solution:
    SCORCHED EARTH!!!!!

    Sheldon
     
    Slobray likes this.