Should Owner’s / Parent’s be held accountable when children are killed?

[rolandson]

Should Owner's / Parent's be held accountable when children are killed?

Yes, but not just if children are harmed. I believe that as a gun owner, I am responsible for my gun and what it does. Therefore when it is not under my control, it is secured...properly secured.

I honestly believe that a gun owner who permits their gun to fall into the hands of an individual who should not have access to it, either through negligence or stupidity, that the gun owner is equally responsible for whatever consequences may result. Meaning that if one tosses their gun in a night stand and heads off to the office, during which time the house where the night stand is get robbed and the gun disappears...it's on the gun owner for being so bloody stupid.

I don't believe that cheaply made POS lock boxes and trigger locks satisfy that definition of "properly secured".

It's kind of long and really pretty annoying, but the linked youtube is also worth the pain to get through. One comes away with a healthy respect how unbelievably bad, cheap, useless most lock boxes are.

DEFCON 19: Safe to Armed in Seconds: A Study of Epic Fails of Popular Gun Safes - YouTube

 

[sadiesassy]

INteresting timely topic.

My son and kids are coming out. They are 3 and 5 years of age.
One side of me said - we need to teach them
The other side said - they are hear for 5 days - Lets lock them away where they can't possibly get to them and our step daughter will not freak out. Ammo is already locked up elsewhere.

SO we decided to lock them up so they could not get to them.

Now if friends are visiting - I am less concerned about the long guns and it is 2 pistols we tend to put in the bedroom.
Now my brother in law - Walks in the door - puts his gun on a side table - No questions asked

But yes gun owners have a responsibility .
So yes I believe some should be prosecuted - depends on situation. But it would have to be some sort of negligance.

 

[Mutoman]

Should Owner’s / Parent’s be held accountable when children are killed?

I am interested in the opinions of all NWF.com users on this matter. Please keep it legal and try not to shoot the messenger!

The problem: Children being killed maimed or shot with guns that are unsecured or assessable.

Solution: Should Owner’s / Parent’s be held accountable when children are killed?

If so, to what extent?

Charged with Negligent Homicide if neglect, wrong doing or unsecured weapons are used? (Unless the weapon was reported stolen.)

I value the audience on this site, and feel that a real solution can be found. I have served as a Hospital Corpsman for 25 ½ years, have weapons, and value the CHL and amendments in the constitution. However, I think a time has come that we all need to do more to save our children.

What do you think on this?

Yes, but only if there exists proven negligence.

 

[shayne]

A 13 year old boy puts a 12 guage in his mouth and blows his brains out all over the bathroom wall . His mom and siblings were in the next room. This boy was a hunter and knew how to handle a firearm. Who the f#$% to we blame for that.

 

[Hairtrigger]

A 13 year old boy puts a 12 guage in his mouth and blows his brains out all over the bathroom wall . His mom and siblings were in the next room. This boy was a hunter and knew how to handle a firearm. Who the f#$% to we blame for that.

Nope, guess he didn't.

 

[Mutoman]

A 13 year old boy puts a 12 guage in his mouth and blows his brains out all over the bathroom wall . His mom and siblings were in the next room. This boy was a hunter and knew how to handle a firearm. Who the f#$% to we blame for that.

Sad, but again it comes down to negligence. Sounds like there was no negligence here...that is unless the kid was telling his parents the day before that he was going to blow his brains out with his shotgun and they failed to do something about it.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Sad, but again it comes down to negligence. Sounds like there was no negligence here...that is unless the kid was telling his parents the day before that he was going to blow his brains out with his shotgun and they failed to do something about it.

I have to disagree. There is a ton of negligence here. A 13 year old kid does stupid things. Any parent of one knows that. If you don't know that or you are one of those deluded parents that likes to pretend their kids are not affected by biology or puberty then there are other issues here as well. You do not allow kids that young unsupervised access to firearms. When they get home the guns get locked up. They are not toys.

 

[rolandson]

I'll play.

The scenario:

A 13 year old boy puts a 12 guage in his mouth and blows his brains out all over the bathroom wall . His mom and siblings were in the next room. This boy was a hunter and knew how to handle a firearm. Who the f#$% to we blame for that.

Let's start with...
What idiot permits a 13 year old unrestricted / unsupervised access to a shotgun?

which leads us to...
What moron permits a depressed 13 year old...

This boy was a hunter and knew how to handle a firearm

The operative word in that sentence is was. Yes, it appears he knew how to handle a firearm just fine, so that makes the stupidity of permitting a child the unrestricted access to it acceptable?

The sad part is that, if this is a true scenario, then lives are forever damaged that need not have been and that unfortunately is a consequence that will last.

 

[sandman1212]

If I leave a firearm on the nightstand in my room and a child goes in there and handles my firearm, would that not be trespassing??? It is my property and I told them not to go in there, not it is on the child's parents to ensure that they don't. I don't leave my firearms laying around my house.

 

[shayne]

Very sad and yes it was true the boy and his family lived near my cousin in Queen Creek AZ

 

[Riot]

Should Owner’s / Parent’s be held accountable when children are killed?

Should Owner’s / Parent’s be held accountable when children are killed?

Yes. Do you not think that if I left the keys to my car running with a child and they put it in reverse and smacked someone with it I should be held liable? Then why not a loaded firearm?

If so, to what extent?

Charge= Criminal Negligence w/ a Firearm if child is under the age of 12.

Punishment= Firearm ownership taken away, damages paid to victims/survivors of victims by parent.

Notice I specifically put at the age of 12...anything past that should be on the child. I am more for education rather than hiding the firearm and shunning them like instant death machines (you think the kid doesn't know your safe combination? If they don't, I bet they still tried!). Children need to know that firearms are okay and are fun, but they can only touch them when on the range and while being supervised. Hiding the gun will just mean that they will find it and show it off when you're not looking...keeping it locked up will just make them curious. Education and respect for firearms must be taught. Then they must be kept secured (mainly because you don't want them stollen).

 

[SonicBlue03]

We don't have kids, so I have less concern about firearms in my house potentially being unsecured. That said, when we have guests that have children I make a point to review any potential firearms that could be accessed by children and make sure they are secured and unable to be used in any fashion without the right key/combo/etc. Sure, it's my house but once people are under my roof as guests they become my responsibility to some extent. If they hurt themselves in the kitchen that's one thing - knives are made for cutting food and misusing them is something that could happen. You're not really misusing a gun if you use it to shoot something.

 

[Tangent123123]

I don't know specifically about gun related issues. But I think a parent should be legally responsible for their kids until they are 18. Kid does something bad, parent is held responsible to a lesser degree. It's their child, their responsibility. If they didnt' take the time to bring the kid up right, then it's their own fault. But then I also think if a kid does wrong a parent should have the right to kick the kids *** as well. None of this time out bullbubblegum.

Your kids, your responsibility. Take the time to bring them up right, or don't have them.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

If I leave a firearm on the nightstand in my room and a child goes in there and handles my firearm, would that not be trespassing??? It is my property and I told them not to go in there, not it is on the child's parents to ensure that they don't. I don't leave my firearms laying around my house.

No, it is not trespassing. You invited this person into your home. It would clearly and legally be negligence on your part to leave an unsecured firearm laying around knowing a child was in the home.

 

[Mikej]

Should Owner’s / Parent’s be held accountable when children are killed?

I am interested in the opinions of all NWF.com users on this matter. Please keep it legal and try not to shoot the messenger!

The problem: Children being killed maimed or shot with guns that are unsecured or assessable.

Solution: Should Owner’s / Parent’s be held accountable when children are killed?

If so, to what extent?

Charged with Negligent Homicide if neglect, wrong doing or unsecured weapons are used? (Unless the weapon was reported stolen.)

I value the audience on this site, and feel that a real solution can be found. I have served as a Hospital Corpsman for 25 ½ years, have weapons, and value the CHL and amendments in the constitution. However, I think a time has come that we all need to do more to save our children.

What do you think on this?

YES.....When a third grader is getting his hands on a loaded gun to take to school his parent is as responsible as though he had handed the gun to the kid. It's irresponsibe gun owners such as that that are giving the rest of us a black eye. Irresposible gun owners not securing their guns properly and guns being stolen and then sold on the streets to bangers.

Mike

 

[mortre]

I grew up with mostly unrestricted access to a 12 gauge, and I was probably 11 when I was given my 30-30. And that was a far from uncommon situation where I grew up not so long ago. There was a child shooting incident in my town at the time, but negligence wasn't in him having access to the gun. The negligence was in ignoring his behavior long enough to let it progress to the point that he shot and killed his mother and sister.

My point is, ideas like extra laws for holding someone accountable if a child gets their gun are worse than pointless. Negligence laws already cover that situation. All it does is allow 3rd parties, such as neighbors, teachers and friends, to not react appropriately when they see something is wrong. So they can say "he was just a normal kid" and conveniently forget any odd behavior. Because after all, there is a law that says kids can't get guns and they can't bring them to school. So nothing like that will ever happen HERE. And if they did say yeah, he was always really quiet and didn't socialize well, everyone would rightly think THEY were negligent for not blowing a whistle.

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[rolandson]

If I leave a firearm on the nightstand in my room and a child goes in there and handles my firearm, would that not be trespassing??? It is my property and I told them not to go in there, not it is on the child's parents to ensure that they don't. I don't leave my firearms laying around my house.

You have got to be kidding?

No, that would not be a trespass; that would be negligence on the part of the homeowner and absolute stupidity on the part of the gun owner...for which one should be prosecuted and the other have their guns taken away ... it's a two-for-one if it happens to be the same person.

Please, tell us that you do more than take the gun off the night stand and place in a drawer when you have children in you house...please tell us that, at the very least, you lock it up?

 

[mortre]

I don't know about trespass, but that would be negligence on the part of the parent for letting a child roam around someone else's house unsupervised. Especially if it is a kid with such bad manners as to open a closed door or enter someone else's bedroom. You could make an argument for negligence of the homeowner as well, but if the parent is at the house it is their responsibility to keep their own children in check.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I grew up with mostly unrestricted access to a 12 gauge, and I was probably 11 when I was given my 30-30. And that was a far from uncommon situation where I grew up not so long ago. There was a child shooting incident in my town at the time, but negligence wasn't in him having access to the gun. The negligence was in ignoring his behavior long enough to let it progress to the point that he shot and killed his mother and sister.

My point is, ideas like extra laws for holding someone accountable if a child gets their gun are worse than pointless. Negligence laws already cover that situation. All it does is allow 3rd parties, such as neighbors, teachers and friends, to not react appropriately when they see something is wrong. So they can say "he was just a normal kid" and conveniently forget any odd behavior. Because after all, there is a law that says kids can't get guns and they can't bring them to school. So nothing like that will ever happen HERE. And if they did say yeah, he was always really quiet and didn't socialize well, everyone would rightly think THEY were negligent for not blowing a whistle.

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What is it with people that they can't see the flaw in this kind of reasoning? Just because you had access and did not die does not diminish the risk. I never wore a seatbelt as a child and I am still here to talk about it. That does not mean it is just as safe for kids to not wear one as it is to wear one. For your information, incidents of children being injured and killed with firearms was much higher decades ago than it is today.

 

[mortre]

Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. Either way it doesn't matter, because the negligence happened before the child even thought about picking up the gun.

You can't cry negligence at the last second and turn a blind eye to the chain of negligence that lead up to it.