private sales - WA

[wired]

i bought a handgun when i was 18. i did a lot of research, and it seemed legal, just not to carry it.

I second the dol form, at least when im selling a handgun/revolver (it doesnt have a place for rifles) but that also because currently all of my guns have been purchased from dealers, therefore the last sale of the firearm as far as the govt knows was to me. If i tell them that i sell it, i figure it basically wipes me clean of that ownership and whatever happens after i sell it. What are everyone elses opinion on the dol form?

My opinion is what the buyer does with the firearm I sell him has nothing to do with me or the firearm. The firearm is an inanimate object. I ask to see a state issued ID to verify state residency and I ask if the buyer is a convicted felon. If the buyers answers satisfy me and he doesnt look like a gang banger then he walks away with a gun all in accordance with state law.

 

[sleepygreen]

i know its a little ridiculous, and i know a bill of sale like the one just posted would probably be more than adequate, but you dont have fear of being wrongfully accused of a crime committed with a firearm you once owned? I would hope the cops would do their research, but you never know. I know legally you dont have to have any paper trail, and many of you sound like you like it that way, rightfully so, but it seems like something like the dol form would protect you more than infringe upon your privacy.

Also, if you set up to meet a person to sell them a firearm and didnt like the way they appeared, as maybe a "gang banger", would you really say youve changed your mind and dont want to sell it any more or what? Dont get me wrong, i dont want firearms in the hands of those who mean to use them in unlawful ways as much as the next person, but i think its unfair to judge someone based upon their appearance.

 

[wired]

Also, if you set up to meet a person to sell them a firearm and didnt like the way they appeared, as maybe a "gang banger", would you really say youve changed your mind and dont want to sell it any more or what? Dont get me wrong, i dont want firearms in the hands of those who mean to use them in unlawful ways as much as the next person, but i think its unfair to judge someone based upon their appearance.

I can sell to whoever I please based on their appearance and I have stopped sales mid way through based on a buyers appearance. I'm not bound by any regulations saying I have to be an equal opportunity seller. You want equal rights get a gov't job.

 

[sleepygreen]

i know you have every right to, i guess i personally just look at it differently...to an extant i guess.

 

[009]

you do not have to do anything. until the law changes, it is that simple. we all know the rest of the story, and everyone has their oppinion on how private sales/purchases should be done. since this is the truth, choose your own way to conduct a private sale in wa. "feel free"

 

[JAAndor]

I have one for sale.
Any interested parties?

 

[Bhowe]

WAY off topic but I once had an interesting encounter with a WSP rookie. Got pulled over-asked if I had dope or weapons to which I replied "dope? no. weapons? yes." (paraphrase). They took my glock off my hip, handcuffed me "for my own safety", and put me in the back of the cruiser while they checked out the rest of my guns. Just so happened I was headed to shoot. Nevermind the 1000+ rounds I had loaded in mags, the guys major concerns were A: the blue tips on the front of the 44gr. Fiocchi .223 varmint rounds I picked up on clearance and B: my 2 AR's where not "regestered" to me... Turned out the cop was new and thought that because my rifles both came back as having "no record" (meaning 'not stolen')from the DOL, that they must be 'un-registered'. He thought that the blue tips meant they were 'military rounds' used for piercing through police issue body armor. I explained, in front of his sargent who by now was also there, that rifles are not registered in the state and that he should be more afraid of the 55gr FMJ 5.56 I had as it would be more effective against defeating his soft body armor. The Sargent, who explained he was ex military and in LE for 20+ years, agreed with everything I said and I was released.

 

[USMC1345]

While I understand what you are saying, your own post is contradictory whereas you say you call in all used guns to check if it is stolen. What if it comes back clear but then turns out like the gun you cited above that went 8 yrs without being reported as stolen? Unless you call back and check it regularly you might just end up in the "instant felon" category you mentioned when it is finally reported as stolen.

I suppose the only true defense to that scenario would be to use a gun purchased from a FFL as your CCW.

Slickx45

Slickx45

This has been my thought process and thus what I have done for all the years I've been carrying.

 

[weezil_boi]

There are no paperwork or ID requirements for private party transactions in Washington State. You may want to verify that the buyer is a state resident as that is the main requirement. Of course if the person is prohibited from owning a firearm and you know that you can't sell to them but you are not required to check their background. As far as what happens to the firearm afterwards all you have to tell police is you don't own the firearm anymore. That's even if they could trace it to you. They would have to have possesion of the firearm to do that. In my opinion the less paperwork the better but I do buy from an FFL dealer if they have something I want.

Wow. I cant wait to move back to WA. It sounds like you boys do it right up there.

Down here in the people's republic of Kalifornistan, we have crazy rules...

1. 21yr min to buy handgun
2. can only buy NEW handguns from a state approved list (takes forever to get new models certified... no XDm for example), this means cops can buy an LCP for $350 and sell it used months later for $500+... sucks.
3. We have a State assualt weapon law- it insane, we have to put crazy locks and devices on our mag releases and handgrips to have AR and AK style rilfes... or face prison.
4. no 50 BMGs
5. no Hi-Cap (10+) mags for rifle or pistol unless owned before ban.
6. private sales/transfers have to be done through an FFL ( unless C&R guns)
7. 10 wait period on all sale/transfers via FFL
8. No Tracer ammo
9. some local govs, like city of sacramento, require fingerprint, copy of ID and application to purchase ammunition ( this will soon be a STATEWIDE law)
10. blah, blah, blah... the rest is just more depressing

Im REALLLLLY looking forward to comming home

This was an imformative post, thanks to the OP for asking what I also wanted to know.

 

[m1gunr]

I've found a buyer for a handgun I'm trying to sell. The buyer is 19. I plan to fill out a private party transfer form for the gun. Anyone know where I can find the laws regarding this ? I think HG buyer must be 21, but not sure.

Washington State law RCW 9.41.240 contains the information for "Possession of pistol by person from eighteen to twenty-one. There are exemptions in RCW 9.41.060 (6),(7),(8).

Federal law at 18 USC 922(x)(2) allows adults aged 18 to own and carry handguns, 18 USC 922(b)(1) forbids these same adults from buying handguns from federally licensed dealers pursuant to a Brady Act gun buyer criminal background check.

The NRA is currently challenging federal law that prohibits law-abiding Americans eighteen through twenty years of age from legally purchasing a handgun through a federally licensed firearm dealer. The case was filed September 7, 2010 in the United States District Court for the Northern District of Texas, Lubbock Division. James D'Cruz of Lubbock, TX is the plaintiff in this case.

Legislation is to be introduced in Washington next year that will allow 18 year olds the ability to obtain a concealed pistol license.

 

[m1gunr]

Something I wrote up on another gun forum.

So you want to buy a pistol at the age 18 from a private seller? Lets go look at Title 18 USC 922 the section on Unlawful Acts (subsection X)
<broken link removed>

which states:
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile:
(A) a handgun;or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.

(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term "juvenile" means a person who is less than 18 years of age.

So the Feds allow you to buy a handgun at 18 from private sellers but according to Washington RCW 9.41.240 you can only carry it on your own property. WRONG because RCW 9.41.060 provides an exception for 9.41.240 as well as 9.41.050 (concealed about your person & loaded in a vehicle). Specifically look at sections 7 & 8 in RCW 9.41.060. Because of this exception you can carry that pistol concealed about your person if you are a member of a gun collector club (think WAC), going to and from the events. If you meet the requirements in section 8 (hiking, hunting, fishing, etc), you may carry that pistol to and from that activity as well.

I am not a lawyer and this is by no means legal advice.

RCW 9.41.240
Possession of pistol by person from eighteen to twenty-one.
Unless an exception under RCW 9.41.042, 9.41.050, or 9.41.060 applies, a person at least eighteen years of age, but less than twenty-one years of age, may possess a pistol only:
(1) In the person's place of abode;
(2) At the person's fixed place of business; or
(3) On real property under his or her control.

RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.
(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.
(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.
(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.
(4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.

RCW 9.41.060
Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.
The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:
(1) Marshals, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens or their deputies, or other law enforcement officers of this state or another state;
(2) Members of the armed forces of the United States or of the National Guard or organized reserves, when on duty;
(3) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed pistol;
(4) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of the person, if possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of the business;
(5) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive pistols from the United States or from this state;
(6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;

(7) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of modern and antique firearm collecting, when those members are at or are going to or from their collector's gun shows and exhibits;

(8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;

(9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper; or
(10) Law enforcement officers retired for service or physical disabilities, except for those law enforcement officers retired because of mental or stress-related disabilities. This subsection applies only to a retired officer who has: (a) Obtained documentation from a law enforcement agency within Washington state from which he or she retired that is signed by the agency's chief law enforcement officer and that states that the retired officer was retired for service or physical disability; and (b) not been convicted or found not guilty by reason of insanity of a crime making him or her ineligible for a concealed pistol license.

Title 18 USC Section 922 - Unlawful acts (see subsection X)
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile:
(A) a handgun;or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess:
(A) a handgun;or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.

(3) This subsection does not apply to:
(A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and used by the juvenile:
(i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching or farming related to activities at the residence of the juvenile (or on property used for ranching or farming at which the juvenile, with the permission of the property owner or lessee, is performing activities related to the operation of the farm or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a course of instruction in the safe and lawful use of a handgun;
(ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile's parent or guardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local law from possessing a firearm, except:
(I) during transportation by the juvenile of an unloaded handgun in a locked container directly from the place of transfer to a place at which an activity described in clause (i) is to take place and transportation by the juvenile of that handgun, unloaded and in a locked container, directly from the place at which such an activity took place to the transferor or;
(II) with respect to ranching or farming activities as described in clause(i), a juvenile may possess and use a handgun or ammunition with the prior written approval of the juvenile's parent or legal guardian and at the direction of an adult who is not prohibited by Federal, State or local law from possessing a firearm;
(iii) the juvenile has the prior written consent in the juvenile's possession at all times when a handgun is in the possession of the juvenile; and
(iv) in accordance with State and local law;
(B) a juvenile who is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard who possesses or is armed with a handgun in the line of duty;
(C) a transfer by inheritance of title (but not possession) of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile;or
(D) the possession of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile taken in defense of the juvenile or other persons against an intruder into the residence of the juvenile or a residence in which the juvenile is an invited guest.
(4) A handgun or ammunition, the possession of which is transferred to a juvenile in circumstances in which the transferor is not in violation of this subsection shall not be subject to permanent confiscation by the Government if its possession by the juvenile subsequently becomes unlawful because of the conduct of the juvenile, but shall be returned to the lawful owner when such handgun or ammunition is no longer required by the Government for the purposes of investigation or prosecution.
(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term "juvenile" means a person who is less than 18 years of age.

 

[A2theK]

Good luck with the DOL form. It's too much info that is subject to a Public Records Request. Want all your info made public? Do your research. I may just post all the info on a Washington cease-fire web site as a hand slap for people that give up their right to privacy so easily. Maybe not, but think about it.

I use a bill of sale if there is a paper trail or at a minimum write down a WDL for my records and ask them if they are prohibited.

It's not my job to verify - any more than it is to see if they passed a chainsaw, ladder, insert dangerous weapon here safety class.

 

[meowskiz]

I didn't read through all the posts in the thread, but I've used hotgunz.com to check serial numbers before purchasing before. Gives you a quick reference to see if the gun has been reported stolen.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Guys I use to have LOTS of guns without paperwork. Then a Tacoma cop friend of mine who had a break in 8 years prior finally noticed that one of his hide outs guns was missing. For 8 years there was a gun out there not reported stolen.

I call all used guns I am buying into the local police and don't buy if it comes back as stolen. Now imagine getting pulled over for speeding and you tell the cop of your concealed handgun. He runs the numbers and low and behold you are now a felon!

Also keep in mind not all states allow private sale.

You are not required to inform cops of your carry status in WA unless they ask, and IMO it's foolish to do so

 

[LoneStar]

I've never tell the cops that I am armed. Do you know if you inform the cops of your carry status in Oregon?