Obtaining Antibiotics for SHTF

Discussion in 'Preparedness & Survival' started by DeadEyeMcGoo, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. DeadEyeMcGoo

    DeadEyeMcGoo Active Member

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    I recently had a great educational experience regarding obtaining antibiotics without a prescription. I haven't seen a thread dedicated to actual procurement and thought I'd share. Having a store of antibiotics on hand for times when doctors are unavailable could be a huge benefit and could make the difference between life and death.

    NOTE: IF YOU DONT KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOURE DOING WITH ANTIBIOTICS – DON’T ADMINISTER THEM!!! You could kill somebody, or at the very least, breed a resistant strain of bacteria. Confirm any known allergies and respond accordingly. Know the intended usage, how much and how long to take it and what signs might indicate a negative reaction. In short, do ALL your homework ahead of time!

    There are several sources available online that provide medications without a doctor's consent. Canadian pharmacies can ship to the U.S. but can be quite expensive. Many of their medications originate from India/Pakistan which I find dubious. Ebay is another source with the same concerns. Shipping times can be delayed and they can still be prohibitively expensive.

    That’s why I turned to “Fish antibiotics.” After a significant amount of research, the providers I looked at have EXACTLY the same medication that your doctor would provide. Not just the same formula. This is the very same medicine and originates from the very same pharmaceutical company. In fact, there’s no such thing as a manufacturer of “Fish Antibiotics.” Big Pharma simply labels them differently to make a few extra bucks. Here’s how to tell:

    The company I used is Aquaticpharmacy.com. They are local to Washington State, provide a great deal of information on their site and can deliver in two days. Their prices are about a third of what I found anywhere else as well. (A 100 count bottle of Amoxicillin was just $14.39! Your co-pay is probably more than that!)

    1) When ordering online, first look for a picture of the actual pill. The color of the capsule is part of a production code that helps identify and describe its contents. Using the color markings, visit Drugs.com and confirm that the image matches what is listed from the manufacturer. For example, Amoxcillin is listed with the following information: WC 730 WC 730 imprint (amoxicillin 250 mg) - Drugs.com Also visit a second site for more info and to confirm your findings: Amoxicillin Details - The People's Medicine Community

    2) Using the information from Drugs.com visit the manufacturer’s site and confirm the medication color, markings and intended usage. Also note the “NDC #.” Drug products are identified and reported using a unique, three-segment number, called the National Drug Code which serves as a universal product identifier for human drugs. For example, Dava Pharmaceuticals is one of the big Pharma companies and is the manufacturer of the product I ordered. Their website provided the following information which confirms the type and content of the pill: Amoxicillin - DAVA Pharmaceuticals, Inc.

    3) Note the markings on the pill and do additional research. The Amoxicillin I ordered was labeled "WC 730." This marking from the pharmaceutical company is a second identifier of the medication. Drugs.com confirms this imprint and clarifies the content of the pill and its intended use. It also confirms whether or not it is human grade.

    4) The packaging itself should also have four main identifiers.

    a) USP: Any oral medication packaging should be stamped with “USP.” USP stands for United States Pharmacopeia. The United States Pharmacopeia is an official public standards–setting authority for all prescription and over–the–counter medicines and other health care products manufactured or sold in the United States. This is the organization that set the standards for pills. This marking assures that the medication has met federally mandated standards and wasn’t produced in some back alley.

    b) Lot Number: This information can be used to track the actual manufacturing of this particular line. The Lot # follows the production line and confirms when and where the pill was manufactured.

    c) Expiration date: Most antibiotics are good for 18-22 months from date of purchase. After this time the pill will begin to degrade and become less effective. Store in a cool, dark place.

    d) Your packaging may also be marked as “AB rated.” This simply confirms that it is the generic alternative to a name brand.

    Once you have confirmed this information, you should feel safe in knowing what you will receive. Be sure to visually inspect the pills when they arrive to assure they match what was ordered.

    Before you order, you should know what the different antibiotics are used for and when to take them. Here's a great primer for that purpose: http://www.northwestfirearms.com/preparedness-survival/108630-medical-considerations-antibiotics-your-personal-kit.html

    And lastly:
    1: Review the known drug allergies of everyone in your household. Don't stock anything that anyone is allergic to. Especially look at the sulfas & cillins for allergies.

    2: Pick very few types of antibiotics to stock. You don't need some of everything on the market. First choice is Keflex (cephalexin) as it has very low side-effects and is a wide-spectrum antibiotic. Do not keep Keflex for more than 1 year beyond the expiration date. It does go bad. Second choice is Augmentin (amoxicillin) for a wide-spectrum. You can take care of most anything that will come up with those two. The others you might consider are Erythromycin and Septra (sulfamethoxazole) as long as there are no sulfa allergies.

    3: Print out the entire drug card for each medication from a reputable source such as rxlist.com and keep that info stored with the drug.

    4: Keep the bottles with the original seal intact and store in a dry, dark, and cool place. Monitor the expiration dates and replace stock as it expires, though for emergency use many of these drugs can be used beyond the expiration date. I wouldn't suggest pushing the date any further than 1 year as long as it was stored correctly.

    For additional research you can start with: Fish Antibiotics |

    A great video is available here: Fish Antibiotics in a Collapse by Dr Bones - YouTube

    Having said all this, I would still prefer to always be checked by my physician and get his professional recommendation. But for times when he’s not available, I’ll feel very comfortable following these steps.
    just dan, Mutoman, 19 Adam and 7 others like this.
  2. BEN LILLY

    BEN LILLY Active Member

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    This thread sounds very much like a company sales pitch. If you want an emergency supply of a broad spectrum antibiotic, Ask your doctor for a perscription. Tell Him/Her why you want this. Most doctors will grant your request.
  3. 19 Adam

    19 Adam Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    Good luck with that on the west side of the Cascades.
    In the last year we have checked with our two General Practitioners (MD's), our orthopedist and a couple of other specialists my wife sees on a semi regular basis. The only time we have ever been given a prescription for antibiotics without having symptoms diagnosed is from our DMD Dentist when I was scheduled to have some dental work done in the near future.

    If anyone has the name and contact information of a physician willing to provide current patients with SHTF prescriptions let me know. We will change doctors. I am tired of listening to all of the medical/liability reasons why my doctors can not honor my requests.
  4. ATCclears

    ATCclears Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Adding self to thread...

    Peter
  5. DeadEyeMcGoo

    DeadEyeMcGoo Active Member

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    Quick note: I have no affiliation with any of the companies mentioned in my thread. I mention them only to share my experience. If you find better options please add them to the thread! :thumbup:
  6. ATCclears

    ATCclears Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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  7. knuckle Head

    knuckle Head Well-Known Member

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  8. Trailboss

    Trailboss Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Nice
  9. 4Freedom

    4Freedom Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Doctors will give you antibiotics for just about anything.. Just go in and say you got a cough that wont go away, etc etc.. Many times they won't even question it. I practically have to beg them not to give me antibiotics in most cases. BTW.. There are many herbal remedies that are actually more effective of staving off many bacterial infections than antibiotics. Because antibiotics are over-prescribed and used en masse in animal feedlots, more and more of them are being rendered useless at the many antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria that are emerging as a result of this.

    I personally, would like to stock up on oil of oregano and many other well proven herbs to help fight off infections. Technology in the natural world has improved greatly and has benefits of healing you without horrible side effects of many medications. E.g., I took herbs in Africa instead of the synthetic medicine malarone, which has become less and less effective against cerebral malaria.

    Yeah, some people will believe that it is impossible to cure any infection without the magic pill. Antibiotics are a great concept, but being rendered more ineffective by the greed and stupidity of the pharm industry and corporate factory farms, raising animals in highly concentrated, confined and unnatural environment where they will drop dead without antibiotic laced feeds.

    On another note, stocking up on a good supply of cipro isn't a bad idea.. It is a powerful antibiotic that I had to use when I was in Africa on my first trip. My second trip I took a regimen of herbs/supplements and didn't get hit with the dysentery or runs I got sickened with on my first trip.

    If you really want the easiest way to get antibiotics, like cipro, go to a travel clinic and tell them you will be going to Africa or India for 4 months.. You can be sure the doctor will give you a very large prescription of cipro that will last you quite some time. When I went to Africa on my second trip, I took a lot of cipro with me, but thankfully never had to use it.
  10. bolus

    bolus Active Member

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    Ive done prescriptions for antibiotics for people who are travelling. I have a guy that does some jungle trekking every year and I give him a supply for the trip. I had one guy go on a yacht in the Pacific for a month and I set up his supply of meds. I havent had anyone ask me for antibiotics for SHTF situations other than a guy that wanted a year's worth of cipro and tamiflu when the bird flu was going to kill us all.

    My recommendation would be to have a good honest relationship with your primary care doc. If I knew a patient well and they asked me for a emergency supply I would do it.

    I dont really have a recommendation for anyone in Portland though. Not something we talk about regularly.
  11. DeadEyeMcGoo

    DeadEyeMcGoo Active Member

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    Many of us don't have health care coverage and/or are out of work. Visiting a doctor in my case was, quite simply, impossible.

    This all started for me when I contracted my annual case of bronchitis. Fortunately, I recognized the symptoms and knew what I needed. Now that I'm all better, my next prep purchase will be an emergency pack: Amoxicillin, Ciprofloxacin, Metronidazole, Doxycycline, Sulfamethoxazole, Azithromycin, and Clindamycin. This should treat treat 90% of the bacterial diseases that will appear on your doorstep in times of trouble, even some forms of Anthrax. All for just over $130.00.
    knuckle Head and (deleted user) like this.
  12. MarkAd

    MarkAd Well-Known Member

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    I have a good antibacterial and you can eat it. Onions, the juice of onion applied to a wound will kill most things. Just cut the onion and rub it on the wound.
  13. ch139

    ch139 Active Member

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    While it is true that there are drugs used for both people and animals that may be dispensed from the same big bottle at the pharmacy (Tramadol and Gabapentin come quickly to mind too), if you're not a doctor or nurse, administering these drugs may be a big mistake. There is a lot more that goes into it beyond "its exactly the same stuff they give fish."

    For instance, the OP mentioned wide-spectrum antibiotics (broad spectrum antibiotics). Do y'all know how these differ from narrow spectrum antibiotics? What any or all of them are used for? Or how about how to diagnose what the problem is in the first place and what (if any) antibiotic is appropriate before sucking down a bunch of "fish pills." Was it a tetracycline you're after, a cephalosporin, clozaril, a macrolid, a quinolone or some form of penicillin? If you don’t know exactly what you’re doing, don’t do it!

    Please, please, please don't be taking this stuff or giving it to others if you are not properly trained to diagnose/access and know what you are doing - reading the label, some manufacturers paperwork and some stuff on the interweb is not training.

    Your time and money are probably much better spent on some OTC analgesics, antipyretics, tussive, etc. some band aids, first aid stuffs and OMG - some training.
  14. viehmann7680

    viehmann7680 Active Member

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    As far as i know your wide spectrum antibiotics are usually given until they find out exactly what is wrong with you, then give you what you need. Docters and such get paid to use certain products... or prescribe them. They say oh take this and they get money and you have to come back to get what you need... they make more money. So they are pretty useless. I would get antibiotics for things you know will work for, and have the highest probability of happening. I would find someone who knows what they are doing and talk to them, and try and get what they recommend. I agree with the above mentioned though. Stock up on preventative care supplies and bandages.

    I know my wife has a book just on pills and everything related. I believe it's called the Davis drug guide. I would check books like that out... meant for med students and nursing students and such. You would want the info on hand anyways. But stick to what you know will treat, what you know will happen.
  15. bolus

    bolus Active Member

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    We absolutely do not get kick backs for prescribing certain medications. I dont make more money prescribing more expensive medications either. In fact, the insurance companies try to deny anything expensive anymore so if I prescribe something that isnt generic then I usually have to waste my time fighting the insurance company for it.

    Yes, drug companies try to influence doctors with free lunches, marketing, and other tricks. None of the drug reps are even allowed in my office because of this. But in no way can they give a kickback to a doctor legally for prescribing a certain medication. That would be massively unethical as well and if I heard of a colleague doing this I would report it to the state board of medicine and the doc would loose their license.
  16. DeadEyeMcGoo

    DeadEyeMcGoo Active Member

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    I love that we have a doctor on the forums. Thanks, Bolus!
  17. Boomerang

    Boomerang Active Member

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    Agreed. Now where's his practice, I'm looking for a good doctor!
  18. viehmann7680

    viehmann7680 Active Member

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    Yes you might personally not get a kick back... although i'm sure there are plenty of them out there that do. Yes it would be "morally and ethically" wrong... Like that has stopped anyone before. And you've participated in it whether you like it or not. Your professors, your school,The practice doctors work for, The people who decide on what to teach you and tell you what to give others... They are the people that get kick backs. Big pharma is in all sorts of stuff, so to say that they don't is wrong. Just because you are a stand up person doesnt mean everyone is. I'm in no way trying to question you or attack you either. It's the system...
  19. Navman

    Navman Active Member

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    Where can I find fish Viagra? :paranoid:
  20. bolus

    bolus Active Member

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    Well, I'll have to disagree then. Docs arent all saints or perfect. And drug companies can be massive scum bags. But kickbacks form drug companies or docs that prescribe wrong on the first visit just to generate a second visit is just rare. Why? because its illegal. Second? you can sue them for malpractice if they did it and win big. Third, they would loose their license.

    I've worked with many docs by my side over the last 20 years. I've read their notes, I've seen their patients and they have seen mine, I've covered their call and they have mine. Some have made mistakes, including me, but none of them practiced in the way you have described. Believe me, I would report any of them in a second, I dont tolerate bubblegum like that.

    Honestly, If you really feel a doc did this to you sue them or report them to the state medical board. If they did what you say they did, you would win a giant malpractice lawsuit or have a corrective action by the state board. That malpractice suit would be public information and they would have to record it on every future license application, every credentialing application for every insurance company that they would ever contract with for the rest of their life. It would be recorded on every attempt to get hospital admitting privileges at any hospital in the country that they would apply to. The information is all public so they get a public shaming as well Medical Board BOARD ACTIONS

    If you feel a doc is doing this, you have the ability to ruin their careers and make a ton of cash at the same time.

    Anyway, back to talking a about fish antibiotics and and onions.