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Although this is true, a managing member must be responsible for the weapon. So where the managing member lives does matter. You are not supposed to let the gun out of your possession. You cannot just hand a machine gun to anyone and let them take it out without you. A corporate member would need to be in possession of it. So unless your bank is a member of your corporation you can not leave it there. Same goes for leaving it with a friend in Oregon. Unless they are Managing members, but then they would need to be the responsible person for it and they would need to fill out the form 4.

the ATF has always ruled that "secure storage" is a legal way to store.
 
i've read letters that state examples of "secure storage," but don't have links of any to post off the top of my head. i remember things like rented/leased storage units with a specific minimum security measure in place, safe deposit boxes large enough to accommodate, rented properties like apartments and hotels, etc... i think i even remember reading one that stated certain train station/bus depot lockers were good to go.

but dont ever trust internet people- get your own letter from the ATF, with YOU as the addressee. by law, the ATF has 20 days to respond, in writing, to any request for information- just ask them, they'll get back to you.
 
you're gonna need to leave more than that out.. an M16 FCG is all considered "machinegun." the bolt carrier group actually isn't.

In this case, isn't the RDIAS considered the "machinegun" rather than the AR-15?

Also, while I have the AR-15 back in Washington, I can't legally have the M16 Bolt carrier in my posession, can I?
 
In this case, isn't the RDIAS considered the "machinegun" rather than the AR-15?

Also, while I have the AR-15 back in Washington, I can't legally have the M16 Bolt carrier in my posession, can I?

its not as simply as just sticking in and pulling out an RDIAS- you still need an M16 FCG of your choice (burst, FA, 4-position) for the RDIAS to work. these parts must also come out of the weapon at the same time the RDIAS does. no biggy- its just two pins and the selector to pull it all out.

as far as the "m16" BCG- unless WA has some additional law, STANDARD bcgs (what people commonly refer to as FA or m16) are not considered machineguns.
 
Sounds to me like a perfect excuse to tell the wife that you simply HAVE to have TWO AR's. One that becomes the FA that STAYS in Oregon in "secure-storage" (assuming the legality of a WA resident even owning it is possible) and one legal, semi-auto AR that you can play with at leisure while in WA. :D
 
Just to make sure I understand this I am going to attempt to summarize what has been posted so far in regards to washinton FA ownership. The only way to do it legally is to have an FFL *and* pay a class 3 or 2 SOT of $500 or $1000 per year. However that carries the caveat that if you decide you want to stop paying for the FFL and/or SOT you have to sell your inventory to someone in a state that allows FA ownership beforehand or send it all to ATF to be destroyed. I assume this is how certain gun ranges have FA rental weapons? Or am I totally not understanding this?
 
I know of others who have done exactly what you're talking about. They started an LLC in Oregon, and rent a small storage locker here.

One other thing to note, that's pertinent to your situation is that for a RDIAS to work, you need to have a full auto trigger, hammer and disconnect as well as the full auto bolt carrier. Under WA law these are all MG parts and would need to be removed before entering WA.

With regards to FFL's possessing machineguns, it's unlawful to use an FFL to enhance your personal collection.
 
I know of others who have done exactly what you're talking about. They started an LLC in Oregon, and rent a small storage locker here.

One other thing to note, that's pertinent to your situation is that for a RDIAS to work, you need to have a full auto trigger, hammer and disconnect as well as the full auto bolt carrier. Under WA law these are all MG parts and would need to be removed before entering WA.

With regards to FFL's possessing machineguns, it's unlawful to use an FFL to enhance your personal collection.


The part of the Washington statute dealing with machine gun parts says the machine gun parts that are "solely and exclusively" for use in a machine gun are illegal. DIAS's would comply with that definition. Parts such as triggers, disconnectors , hammers and selectors that can also be used in fully functional semi auto guns would not match that definition for prosecution by state authorities. In guns such as the AR-15 where the ATF has ruled that M-16 internals would constitute an illegal machine gun there would still be the possibility of Federal prosecution. For guns such as the AK where you can throw a full auto bolt carrier, trigger, hammer and disconnector in it all day and nothing would happen there would be no state or Federal laws being broken .
 
The part of the Washington statute dealing with machine gun parts says the machine gun parts that are "solely and exclusively" for use in a machine gun are illegal. DIAS's would comply with that definition. Parts such as triggers, disconnectors , hammers and selectors that can also be used in fully functional semi auto guns would not match that definition for prosecution by state authorities. In guns such as the AR-15 where the ATF has ruled that M-16 internals would constitute an illegal machine gun there would still be the possibility of Federal prosecution. For guns such as the AK where you can throw a full auto bolt carrier, trigger, hammer and disconnector in it all day and nothing would happen there would be no state or Federal laws being broken .

Do you have a reliable source for that?
 
Other than the Washington State Code? Solely and Exclusively for use in a machine gun means solely and exclusively. Many parts that can function in a full auto gun can also function in a semi. That makes them not solely and exclusively machine gun parts by the state definition. Some people like to err on the side of caution but the lettering of the law is what matters. Assembling a machine gun would be illegal and the ATF considers an AR-15 with M-16 internals to be a Machine Gun because it will fire more than one round with soft primer commercial ammo so that would run afoul of the state and federal law. I have found no state case law to show that anyone has ever been prosecuted successfully in state courts for possessing non conversion full auto parts that could also be used in a semiauto gun.

RCW 9.41.190
Unlawful firearms — Exceptions.


(1) It is unlawful for any person to manufacture, own, buy, sell, loan, furnish, transport, or have in possession or under control, any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or in converting a weapon into a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or to assemble or repair any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle.

(2) This section shall not apply to:

(a) Any peace officer in the discharge of official duty or traveling to or from official duty, or to any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or the state of Washington in the discharge of official duty or traveling to or from official duty; or

(b) A person, including an employee of such person if the employee has undergone fingerprinting and a background check, who or which is exempt from or licensed under federal law, and engaged in the production, manufacture, repair, or testing of machine guns, short-barreled shotguns, or short-barreled rifles:

(i) To be used or purchased by the armed forces of the United States;

(ii) To be used or purchased by federal, state, county, or municipal law enforcement agencies; or

(iii) For exportation in compliance with all applicable federal laws and regulations.

(3) It shall be an affirmative defense to a prosecution brought under this section that the machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle was acquired prior to July 1, 1994, and is possessed in compliance with federal law.

(4) Any person violating this section is guilty of a class C felony.

[1994 sp.s. c 7 § 420; 1982 1st ex.s. c 47 § 2; 1933 c 64 § 1; RRS § 2518-1.]
 
Specifically, a court ruling. Your interpretation of the statute would be irrelevant to a judge, and anybody who relied on it without doing more in-depth research would be foolish.
 
Specifically, a court ruling. Your interpretation of the statute would be irrelevant to a judge, and anybody who relied on it without doing more in-depth research would be foolish.
OK, show a single court ruling from any Washington State jurisdiction where someone has been successfully prosecuted for possession of a part that could also be used in a semi auto gun. One would be fine. Just one. The state law is clear. Your'e asking for something that does not exist because the state law is clear and it would never make it past the prosecutor or grand jury level. The state tends to defer to the ATF and federal prosecution for machine gun cases. If its illegal on the federal level its illegal on the state level and since the state does not allow complete machine guns or parts that are illegal as conversion parts and are designed solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun would also be illegal on the federal level. I thought machine gun parts were illegal too for a long time because I hear that at a gun shop every now and then. Then I read the law and searched for case law. I found zero instances where anyone has been prosecuted to trial level by state authorities for non conversion parts possession. Illegal conversions and conversion parts are a different story.
 
I found zero instances where anyone has been prosecuted to trial level by state authorities for non conversion parts possession. Illegal conversions and conversion parts are a different story.

I didn't find any either - but if you'd looked a little harder you would have found a case proving you right.... :winkkiss:

In <broken link removed> , 138 Wash.App. 350, the Court of Appeals ruled that an M-16 was not a "machine gun" under RCW 9.41.190, because RCW 9.41.010 (11) defines the term thusly...

"Machine gun" means any firearm known as a machine gun, mechanical rifle, submachine gun, or any other mechanism or instrument not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot and having a reservoir clip, disc, drum, belt, or other separable mechanical device for storing, carrying, or supplying ammunition which can be loaded into the firearm, mechanism, or instrument, and fired therefrom at the rate of five or more shots per second.

...and there was no magazine attached to the M-16 when it was confiscated. :s0114:

Since a magazine can't be attached to a pile of parts, the parts aren't a machine gun. Easy enough. Just don't keep 'em together.

Note, though, that the "ammunition supply device" rule only applies to machine guns, and WA courts still rule that certain piles of parts are "firearms" for the purpose of felon w/ a gun cases &c.
 
See what a good lawyer can do for you :s0114:


Washington State firearms laws are so poorly written its amazing they can jail anyone.


I didn't find any either - but if you'd looked a little harder you would have found a case proving you right.... :winkkiss:

In <broken link removed> , 138 Wash.App. 350, the Court of Appeals ruled that an M-16 was not a "machine gun" under RCW 9.41.190, because RCW 9.41.010 (11) defines the term thusly...



...and there was no magazine attached to the M-16 when it was confiscated. :s0114:

Since a magazine can't be attached to a pile of parts, the parts aren't a machine gun. Easy enough. Just don't keep 'em together.

Note, though, that the "ammunition supply device" rule only applies to machine guns, and WA courts still rule that certain piles of parts are "firearms" for the purpose of felon w/ a gun cases &c.
 
See what a good lawyer can do for you :)

A good lawyer would be able to give reliable advice based on that case.... all I can do is find + summarize it... :s0112:

(Free Westlaw access is easily the best perk of being a law student. Which is kind of sad, now that think about it.)
 

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