Firearms bill of sale

[oknow]

You need to go back to school and take a English class. Your post is garbed and I truly don't know what your talking about.

typical lib, no real response so change the topic and do personal attacks.

 

[MountainBear]

This thread makes no sense. It doesn't matter if your selling a car, trailer, couch, or gun. It's just a piece of property that you own.

When was the last time you sold a dining room table (or whatever else) on craigslist AND ask for ID? It's no different than selling a gun.

Why do you care? The OP asked a question. He/She wishes to protect themselves if they sell a firearm. Whether the threat is real or perceived, why do you care? If you do not have an opinion as to what kind of bill of sale to use, why bother responding?

I truly hope my English is proper enough for you. Incidentally, I believe you were meaning to use the word "garbled", not garbed, as I do not believe you were referring to the post being clothed...

 

[ATCclears]

http://www.dol.wa.gov/forms/652004.pdf

 

[hermannr]

http://www.dol.wa.gov/forms/652004.pdf

Why in the world would you want to do that? If someone, private, insisted on using that DOL form, I would pass on the purchase. If I want my purchase tracked I would buy from a licensed dealer.

 

[ATCclears]

The original poster (OP) asked for a form. I gave him one.

Peter

 

[22many]

typical lib, no real response so change the topic and do personal attacks.

Lol. Whats wrong? I hit a nerve?

 

[22many]

Why do you care? The OP asked a question. He/She wishes to protect themselves if they sell a firearm. Whether the threat is real or perceived, why do you care? If you do not have an opinion as to what kind of bill of sale to use, why bother responding?

I truly hope my English is proper enough for you. Incidentally, I believe you were meaning
to use the word "garbled", not garbed, as I do not believe you were referring to the post being clothed...

Because this is america. I can care or not care about anything I want. That's the beauty of free speech. You don't like it? Don't read it. Simple as that.

And it is garbed. Not garbled. Anybody that has spent any time in the military would know that. It's apparent you haven't. But hey, whatever beats your banana......

 

[JedB]

This all comes down to individual preferences on what information people are willing to give when buying, and what level of CYA they want when selling.

When buying, I either buy from an FFL or Used, depending on what the seller is. If the seller asks for ID, I have no problem letting them look, and I don't mind signing a bill of sale. I see this as a formalization of a handshake deal that covers them. I also get a copy of the bill of sale, so I have a start date of my ownership of a particular firearm. If there is no bill of sale, I enter the gun in my log book with Manufacturer, Model, Serial Number, and purchase date.

When selling, I produce a bill of sale with Manufacturer, Model, Serial Number, My info as seller, date and a name slot for the buyer. I ask to look at their ID and write down full name. I give them a copy and keep one. Again, this, coupled with the purchase slip, shows the full time the firearm was in my ownership, and they have a start date for theirs. When complete, I put the sell date in my logbook.

For the OP, You can create your own in Word. That's how I did mine. Manufacturer, Model, Serial Number, Date Sold, Seller Name & Signature line, Buyer Name and Signature line, and Sale Price.

I may have misread this, but I have seen some commentary above that stated they wouldn't show a Driver's License. If that's the case, then I'm ok not selling to those folks. It's not personal, we just have differing levels of comfort about sharing information.

 

[Misterbill]

I won't do BoS's unless it's at the specific request of the buyer. I WILL do it in that case, because more than likely he's trying to create a paper trail to show he didn't steal the gun. -Fine by me.

I am very careful that I follow the law. The only thing I need to do is make sure they are a resident of the same state. If they make me feel uncomfortable, I won't sell them the gun. Beyond that, it's none of my business. Since I've never sold a gun to anyone who made me in any way nervous, I'm not worried about it.

I had a cop who sold me a gun want me to sign a BoS. I wouldn't do it. No one's business where that gun went. Would you require a BoS for a chainsaw or a knife? Why is a gun any different? They can all be used to kill people.

If the deal is "too good to be true," you're probably buying a stolen gun. Ask the seller to let you run the SN past the cops before money changes hands. If he balks, walk away. A BoS won't protect you if it IS stolen. You probably won't be prosecuted, but then you probably won't be prosecuted anyway. But you're still out the money.

The only item I do a BoS on is a motor vehicle. That's because I need to show my insurance company and the law incase the guy hurts someone driving it, that it was no longer mine. I don't think your liability on a gun works the same way. I've certainly never heard of anything like that happening.

 

[22many]

Misterbill, I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[badclam]

There is no requirement for a Bill of Sale, for someone that is purchasing a pistol to be 21 or have a CPL/CHL.

What is required is that the person is a resident of the state the trasaction takes place, and is not a prohibited person. The LAW states that you may NOT KNOWINGLY sell to a non-resident, or a prohibited person. The minimum age for private sale of a handgun is 18, not 21.

There is NO requirement that the purchaser must have a CPL/CHL, there is NO requirement that the weapon go through a licesed dealer, be checked out by the state patrol or any other such as long as both parties are residents of the state where the transaction takes place.

I find you BoS and must have a CPL/CHL guys to be hypocrites...you would all be the first to holler if LE randomly asked you for your CPL/CHL and then siezed your pistol to check it against their database...

You do what makes you comfortable when you sell a weapon, but there are no requirements beyond KNOWINGLY selling to a prohibited person, or a person that is under 18, or not a resident of your state.

Me, I'm a collector, so by definition I only buy and never sell...but should it ever happen that I did need to sell, I would just ask, "are you a prohibited person", or if the person appeared to be very young "how old are you" and that is all. we are "presumed to be innocent until proven guilty", NOT "guilty until proven innocent"

As for your fears as to being responsible for the actions of others...you are not. When you sell a firearm you are no longer responsible for that firearm...no mare than when you sell an automobile, you are no longer responsibile for that car. That has been held up as true by the courts many times.

I love to shoot, hunt, and also collect. I have had many transactions that don't show, because I often ask people NOT to leave feedback for me. I don't want the LEO or federal agencies that undoubtedly look through these forums to know what or how many firearm related items I have. It's non of anybody else's business. I find it funny that at least half of you by my experience, that want a bill of sale, won't, send the item to my FFL. I have no problem running a gun through an FFL, but I keep track of which ones have been run and which ones have no paper trail. I know they won't be coming and asking for the ones that have no trail. I don't understand wanting a bill of sale? If the gun was bought new by you. Sold by you to someone with no paper work, and left at a crime scene, you are not in any way attached legally to that crime. They,(LEO), come and ask how a gun you bought ended up at the crime scene? Answer- I don't know, I sold the gun to a guy who had a state ID and said he was legally allowed to own it, and give a description. That"s it. Your clear.

If the government ever comes to my door with a list of guns that I've transferred into my name through FFLs, I'll simple tell them they are all gone, sold at a garage sale one day. If they kick in the door and search my home, well then I guess the paper work didn't really matter, did it? If you are even a little suspicious of your governments intentions, and I am, then you should not have all your weapons or ammo in your home. Meaning you should have stashes in places that can not be tied to you. That's as far as I go on that.

The whole notion of paperwork associating me to my firearms gives me heartburn, but I know it is necessary in certain circumstances so I live with it. If you want a private bill of sale with my personal information in your possession, the deal isn't going to happen unless you'll send it to my FFL. Black and white, all or nothing.

 

[MountainBear]

Because this is america. I can care or not care about anything I want. That's the beauty of free speech. You don't like it? Don't read it. Simple as that.

And it is garbed. Not garbled. Anybody that has spent any time in the military would know that. It's apparent you haven't. But hey, whatever beats your banana......

Four leg surgeries before the age of eighteen and a pin in my leg, so no, I was not allowed to serve. I volunteered, and was turned down. What does that matter? Am I less worthy a person because of that? Seems that's what you're insinuating...

But feel free to beat your banana as much as you like. You have the right to your opinion. But so does everyone else.

 

[DuneHopper]

I am semi-confused the conversation went from a question to attacks, as this ended up hijacked.

The point here is about bills of sale, I did some research and found some very useful information on this.

In Oregon you can not sell a gun to a felon ( ok everyone knows that ), however if you unknowingly sell a handgun to a felon or a minor
you can be responsible for acts they do. Furthermore with no bill of sale stating they are not a felon and of age it is your word against their.

So a bill of sale very much is a good idea, it protects you from future liability. Unless you have money to fight in court I would ask for a bill of sale. Also having a copy of the bill of sale from the seller proves you bought it not stole it.

 

[accessbob]

I am semi-confused the conversation went from a question to attacks, as this ended up hijacked.

The point here is about bills of sale, I did some research and found some very useful information on this.

In Oregon you can not sell a gun to a felon ( ok everyone knows that ), however if you unknowingly sell a handgun to a felon or a minor
you can be responsible for acts they do. Furthermore with no bill of sale stating they are not a felon and of age it is your word against their.

So a bill of sale very much is a good idea, it protects you from future liability. Unless you have money to fight in court I would ask for a bill of sale. Also having a copy of the bill of sale from the seller proves you bought it not stole it.

Post your source please.

 

[22many]

Four leg surgeries before the age of eighteen and a pin in my leg, so no, I was not allowed to serve. I volunteered, and was turned down. What does that matter? Am I less worthy a person because of that? Seems that's what you're insinuating...

But feel free to beat your banana as much as you like. You have the right to your opinion.
But so does everyone else.

Spin it however you want to which it seems you are trying to do. Garbed is general military slang. As in, "your transmission is garbed". Do you understand now? Or do i need to explain it more?

And yes, you are right, I have the right to my opinion as does anybody else. Had you
understood that in your comment to me about "what do you care?" in your post (no 42) then I wouldn't have to explain it to you.

Any other thing I can help you out with understanding the basics of living then just let me know.....

 

[hermannr]

Post your source please.

The Key word is KNOWINGLY

If you were to sell a weapon to a felon, someone that is underage, or foreign (not of your state of residence)...and you KNOW the person is,,,yes, you can get in trouble for it, legally, and civily, because that is an illegal activity.

To the extreme...someone (anyone you do not know personally) wants to purchase a gun from you, and you ask NO questions at all, are you KNOWINGLY selling to a prohibited person? Answer is no.

If someone comes up to you and wants to purchase a firearm and tells you, "I need some heat to off the officer that put me in the joint for 20 years...." ok, now if you sell the weapon to this guy...you bet, you are in deep do do, because you KNOWINGLY sold to a prohibited person.

A simple question or two is totally sufficent in my book. Some causual conversation like, "are you a prohibited person", maybe followed by what town do you live in. Or if the person was very young looking, how old are you anyway? If you take the person at his/her word, that is good enough for the law... You actually don't even have to ask..remember that ex-cop that was selling to anyone and not asking any questions...then one of his guns showed up after it was used in a crime? Anybody remember what he actually got in trouble for??? Being a dealer without a license.

 

[22many]

I am semi-confused the conversation went from a question to attacks, as this ended up hijacked.

The point here is about bills of sale, I did some research and found some very useful information on this.

In Oregon you can not sell a gun to a felon ( ok everyone knows that ), however if you unknowingly sell a handgun to a felon or a minor
you can be responsible for acts they do. Furthermore with no bill of sale stating they are not a felon and of age it is your word against their.

So a bill of sale very much is a good idea, it protects you from future liability. Unless you have money to fight in court I would ask for a bill of sale. Also having a copy of the bill of sale from the seller proves you bought it not stole it.

Your right, this has gone off topic. I was just trying to explain to people that a firearm is another piece of property and legally you are not required to have a bill of sale or go through a ffl.

I think alot of people think that because it is a firearm that they have to cover their butt when I reality firearms kill less people than car crashes or even people dying from falling down stairs. The more we (as a firearms community) know then the better we are.

 

[MountainBear]

Spin it however you want to which it seems you are trying to do. Garbed is general military slang. As in, "your transmission is garbed". Do you understand now? Or do i need to explain it more?

And yes, you are right, I have the right to my opinion as does anybody else. Had you
understood that in your comment to me about "what do you care?" in your post (no 42) then I wouldn't have to explain it to you.

Any other thing I can help you out with understanding the basics of living then just let me know.....

Sorry I'm just a simple civilian. I don't know no fancy military jargon. Can you ever forgive me?

For all of you who sell firearms regularly, is there a bill of sale form out there that you use? Just want the buyer and myself to be covered.

A quick reminder for you what the original post was. I don't see any request for someone to tell him he could sell his guns like any other piece of property. He just wanted a form he could use to cover himself...

 

[accessbob]

A quick reminder for you what the original post was. I don't see any request for someone to tell him he could sell his guns like any other piece of property. He just wanted a form he could use to cover himself...

The question was, "is there a form out there that you use." Response of no, and why. Fits in the question. Other possible answer is yes and here is where it is located. Both are valid responses to the question.

 

[22many]

The question was, "is there a form out there that you use." Response of no, and why. Fits in the question. Other possible answer is yes and here is where it is located. Both are valid responses to the question.

Thanks accessbob for explaining it to mountianbear. Even though it is idiototic that you would have to...