double stack .45 ACP handguns?

[krawl]

Frames are forged in brazil, not all of them are finished there though

 

[NoAim]

Frames are forged in brazil, not all of them are finished there though

Kind of like Toyotas.

 

[krawl]

Hey that's OK toyota's are A OK by me

 

[Riot]

30 seconds of Google:

"My High-cap works with para mags (even better than with the magazines that came with the gun)."

And the frames are made in Brazil.

My Canadian Para is closer to "Made in USA".

Yeah- yeah...and Honda is made in the USA...I really don't give a crap where steel comes from. Do you? I'm specifically ref to the P-14 mags. The lips on them have been known to be weak and cause the pistol to double-feed.

I'm with 1911guy. Para P14 is fine range toy but I'd never trust any double stack .45 based on the Para mag tubes for carry. The issue is the magazines. Rounds tend to bind at the double to single transition causing all manner of feed failures. Stronger Wolff mag springs help, as does keeping the mags scrupulously clean, and using lighter bullets (200gr or less).

I guess if you somehow got good mags it could be great but I've pre-1994 thru 2006 dated code mags and all have needed work to even be range reliable.

I can google it up as well...

 

[NoAim]

Yeah- yeah...and Honda is made in the USA...I really don't give a crap where steel comes from. Do you? I'm specifically ref to the P-14 mags. The lips on them have been known to be weak and cause the pistol to double-feed.



I can google it up as well...

I own one. It works with no jams. And you mention weak feed lips, but then pull up something about the transition?

As far as binding at the transition, I seriously doubt it. It looks just like my XD45 mag, which also works just fine.

 

[whphel]

Go to a range and rent a few and try them out. I have big hands I like 1911's but for hicap, I like my Springfield xd-45 tactical. Very acurate and holds lots of rounds 13+1.

 

[RW-Ore]

Taurus PT 24/7 OSS DS in 45 cal is something you might consider not expensive , carries 12 +1 I"m told I got big hands it fits me just fine.You might try it in all reality I love it.I have handled Glocks and they just don't feel right.

 

[rsmccsman]

I currently have an XD 45 compact with 10 round and 13 round magazines. Kind of a best of both worlds gun with concealable 10 round magazine and higher capacity back up magazine with a sleeve on it that makes it feel like part of the grip. It has a less bulky grip than a Glock 20 in .45. I also have Taurus PT 145 10+1 round double stack and the grip is actually thinner than my Glock 19/23s in 9mm/.40, but in a .45 and it weighs only 21 ounces. I think that is the smallest package double stack .45 that I have found only slightly wider than the single stack PT 745 version. I don't know how stuck you are on having the 13 round magazines but I personally wouldn't feel inadequately armed with a single stack 1911 either with 7-8 rounds, so 10 rounds of .45 is plenty for me and if you think you need more ammo just carry extra magazines. I don't know if the PT145 Taurus would take the higher capacity .45 magazines of the 24/7 models or not but it would be worth checking into. But all that being said if your hands are too small for the Glock 21 or even an XD in 9 mm Then I would question whether any double stack .45 is going to feel right for you. Go to the gun store and ask to hold the different models until one just feels right, take you time and get one that you can not only live with but really love.

 

[raindog]

Any other guns in the same category in regards size, mag capacity (at LEAST 13), quality?

Kimber made their "Ten" series for a while - I don't know if they still do. I think 10+1 was the largest they made, however.

 

[tionico]

I've looked at both the Smiths and Springfields.... don't like either of them. In fact, I bought an XD-9, its still brand new never fired, because after I discovered the Browning Hi Powers I saw no point..... so, I'd not like the XD 45 either.... just doesn't feel solid and right. And I don't like all the flimsy plastic safety/warning/lockout junk on them. Seems like they are begging for an excuse to fail....... or break.

I've rejected Taurus as well..... I don't mind spending the money for a better grade weapon. I plan to have it until I'm dead, or they somehow manage to steal it from me. I want it to be going strong whenever that happens..... hey, I'd rather my grandkids keep working on wearing it out.


Got it down to two options:

FN P-45, for one (they come with mags as large as 15....)

Hechler und Koch USP 45 (max cap is 12, smaller but acceptable).

I've handled both, side by side, the HK is a touch longer in the grip but no wider, and feels a bit more comfortable in MY hand. The FN's moulded chequering in way of the grip is a bit overly aggressive, but a few seconds with a mill file will ease that handily.

Main difference I can see is price.... FN's seem to be available in the low $600 range new in box with three mags. HK are a bit more dear, closer to $800 with three mags. HK are fitted from the works with night sights in some models, FN are not yet... though another hundred should eaily settle that.

HK have been about for longer, thus the chance of finding an excellent buy on an experienced piece is good. FN are relatively new, I've not yet seen any used ones on offer yet. IF I can find the HK in used but as new condition (I've managed to do this with several other guns I've acquired, including a very sweet HiPower from 1973....) I'd opt for the better gun. Or I may well decide to lay down the extra gold and buy the HK anyway.. their reputation is sterling... as is that of the FN. One thing did impress me with the HK.. the recoil spring on the slide is FAR softer than that of the FN.... meaning felt recoil is likely to be significantly less. This was comparing two guns, both new, side by side on the counter. It was remarkable the difference......

Though it is a bit more dear, I am leaning toward the HK.......

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread... I appreciate the suggestions and personal experience so freely given here. In particular, whoever mentioned the HK first, thanks..... I'd not come across that one, or at least not so as to give it careful consideration. At this point, it may well be what I end up with.
I also appreciate, in particular, the input regarding the FN. Words from satisfied users are always welcome.

Now, if anyone comes across a bargain on either of these two, the FN P-45 or the HK USP-45, please send word along quickly....... I'd definitely prefer a face to face private party sale in Washington, but I may well be dreaming. No tax, no record.... how sweet. (I have a CPL, so no question of legal ownership)

 

[Jackalope]

I have a full size M&P .45 in black. It's a good shooter, 10+1 capacity, U.S. made, 3 sizes of palm swell adapters, rail, eats everything I feed it, night sights, lighter than any full size 1911, mags are cheaper than HK or FN. I got a couple of the 14 round mags as well. These are in the running for ugliest mags ever. The mass of plastic added to the grip reminds me of a geoduck for some reason. They function flawlessly, however. I've been thinking about selling my Commander to get one of the compact versions. Yep, I like it.

Jack

 

[knight182]

I have the taurus PT145, and it is an awesome gone. Fits the hand great. I always hear of quality problems with taurus, but they are always stories like MY FRIEND HAD THIS HAPPEN, or I HEARD OF THIS ONE GUY, but so far no first hand accounts. I have a taurus 85 ultra light in .38 and have put probably close to 10,000 rounds through it and it is still rock solid. My PT145 (millenuim Pro) has about 5,000 rounds and it too is solid. Accurate as **** too. I also have a XD .40 sub-compact and i choose to carry the taurus over the xd everyday. In my opinion there are no quality issues. If you want an interesting read, look up who owned the manufacturing facility in brazil before taurus, (hint hint) it was berreta. And check into the lawsuit from S&W against taurus for copying there revolver design. In my opinion all the stories about taurus guns being of low quality are coming from people who like to show off there thousand dollar kimbers and sigs.

 

[Thule]

Well, I've owned two Taurus pistols and they both left a lot to be desired (I'll refrain from calling them junk ). Their customer service sucks too - one of the guns had an obvious manufacturer defect and when my dealer sent it in for warranty work they just sent it back as "no problem found". It's one of the only brand of guns that I'll never, ever buy again.

I think that the biggest problem with Taurus is its poor quality control and lack of willingness to make it right when their marginal guns make it into the market. Some decent guns probably make it through in spite of their poor quality control which is why you sometimes hear about people having good experiences with them. I also suspect that due to their price point they end up being owned by new gun owners who don't notice the difference in the first place.

Either way, IMHO, for a not a lot more money you can buy a nice gun and skip the chances you take when buying a Taurus. Feel free to shoot one if you like though

Caveat Emptor

 

[knight182]

As far as service goes, I blew the cylinder out of my taurus 85 ultra lite with a stupid reloading accident. After i had sent it to taurus and they had recieved it i called them and asked what i needded to do to get things going, did i need to send a check or give them a credit card and the lady informed me that they have a lifetime warranty. They ended up not being able to fix the gun, so they sent me a NIB replacement. and they even paid the shipping to me. So either there was some crazy mistake and they just didnt find the problem on your gun, or it was one of those deals where the customer thought they knew more than the manufacturer and where pissed when they found out they didnt.

 

[marksman]

As stated try the P-14 .45, it is a good pistol and will not cost an arm and a leg.

 

[tionico]

I've looked at and handled the gamut of them, and have bought a Hechler und Koch USP 45 Elite, new. It is on hold now, a layaway, and once paid off will be shipped..... I'll be getting two extra mags and tritium night sights as extras..... and probably have him throw in a Ruger LCP for grins and giggles as a deep carry or pocket gun (the HK is definitely NOT a pocket gun......... except maybe for some farmer's overhalls with hammer pockets on the thighs....)

I'm pleased with my selection, and am anxious to get it here and take it out for a blast.


To whoever first suggested I have a look at the HK's, I am very thankful. I'd not considered them before your mention, and went to see them soon after. Their reputation is also sterling, considered by many to be amongst the finest handguns out there. Their accuracy and handling highl recommend them.

 

[Artilleryman]

I have no experience with Taurus pistols but I give their revolvers high ratings. I've owned a Raging Bull .454 for several years and have put hundreds of rounds through it with zero problems.

 

[Will]

I like the S&W M&P and while the standard mag only holds 10 that is still 3 more than a single stack and keeps the grip managable size. I expect most can get the job done with 10+1 45's and if not mag exchange is about a quick as possible. The FNH FP is a nice pistol, I haven't shot the 45 but own a 40, it was my CC before I bought the M&P.