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Mags ok I got it
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Do you keep your clips loaded or unloaded?
- Thread Starter Bigd6943
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Darn, now ya took fun out of it
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Oh yeah, everything loaded and ready. Heck, I even have my wheelgun speedloaders full!!
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My introduction to stack 'em deep and keep them loaded was from a co-worker from Paduca, KY. I invited him to go shooting at lunch time and he shows up with a gunny sack full of moon clips loaded with .45ACP for his old S&W 1917. Must have been 150 clips or more. We shot for two hours and didn't make a dent.
I felt grossly inadequate with my 1911 and two 7-rd mags. I have been trying to make up for lost time ever since.
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- Thread Starter
- #67
Ok fine clips are not mags but can mag be clips hummmmmm?
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Can you quickly load a magazine with another magazine? No. Also, why would you? Oh and I guess you'd have to take out the spring and follower too at which case it'd be more like an ammo carrier with less use than a clip.
So in short, no.
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I guess you could call them whatever you want, but without a spring and follower, a clip is not a magazine. Someone has posted a picture to show the difference somewhere behind your question. There may others, but the 30 Carbine, M14, M16 & ARs, SKS, AK, along with bolt actions to name a few
03s, British 303 SMILEs, Mausers all can be recharged or loaded singlely, or by stripper CLIPS. Some of these have internal magazines while others may have removeable magazines. Just don't know how to make terminlogy reverse to fit on this one. As long as you know where the bullets go and the knowledge of operation to run your firearm, does it matter? You may get a surprise if you get a damaged magazine, and ask a partner to pass you clip under a serious situation, and he hands you a stripper clip of ten. It might spoil your day before you sort it out. A fun day at the range, it would make much of a differance what you called it. Someone who probably figure it out!
03s, British 303 SMILEs, Mausers all can be recharged or loaded singlely, or by stripper CLIPS. Some of these have internal magazines while others may have removeable magazines. Just don't know how to make terminlogy reverse to fit on this one. As long as you know where the bullets go and the knowledge of operation to run your firearm, does it matter? You may get a surprise if you get a damaged magazine, and ask a partner to pass you clip under a serious situation, and he hands you a stripper clip of ten. It might spoil your day before you sort it out. A fun day at the range, it would make much of a differance what you called it. Someone who probably figure it out!
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Always have a mag with rounds in it already and I try to switch out mags every month two to avoid wearing out the spring.
I just wouldnt want to have to load bubblegum up first in a SHTF event. you may need that tool NOW!
I just wouldnt want to have to load bubblegum up first in a SHTF event. you may need that tool NOW!
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Folks, My understanding is that mag manufacturers take into account the amount of pressure that can be placed on a spring before it gets bent and loses it's ability to rebound. There is a point (I forget the tech term for it) where the spring material gets bent and does not rebound. The mag follower assemblies ALWAYS are designed so the mag cannot be loaded to the point of damaging the spring.
Moral of the story. Keep it clean and protected from corrosion and your mag springs will last longer than you will. Keeping them loaded is preferable to "rotating" the ammo or such as all metal flexxed and released repeatedly will fatigue. You are better off loading them by hand and unloading them with your trigger finger when the time comes.
Loading them up and storing them that way is not only great for preparation it is also a space saver. I tend to keep mine loaded and stored in a sealed metal container.
Moral of the story. Keep it clean and protected from corrosion and your mag springs will last longer than you will. Keeping them loaded is preferable to "rotating" the ammo or such as all metal flexxed and released repeatedly will fatigue. You are better off loading them by hand and unloading them with your trigger finger when the time comes.
Loading them up and storing them that way is not only great for preparation it is also a space saver. I tend to keep mine loaded and stored in a sealed metal container.
Last Edited:
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I dissagree...I found out from my deployments that any magazine spring can (and will) loose tension from being loaded fully for long periods of time. After just a couple years, we had to replace many of our magazines for our Colt M4s, Beretta M9s and even the tube springs in our Mossberg 500s. Keeping them loaded fully for long periods of time made the springs useless.
When I rotate my magazines, I do it about every 6 months or so to prevent the springs from wearing down before I need them. Cycling the rounds once every 6 months is negligable when compared to constant loading and unloading you do on a constant basis when you shoot out of them.
Having said that, you should never try to "straighten out" a spring- that is what weakens the metal faster than anything.
I recommend cycling your magazines every 6 months and never keep the magazines loaded to the max for longer periods than 6 months as well. After switching to cycling mags and loading my 30-rounders to no more than 25, I've noticed a huge difference in the longevity of my magazine springs.
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Looking into this subject I came across the following info.....
The magazine spring myth has been around for many years and is growing in popularity. It goes something like this: "You should unload your magazines when they're not in use or the spring will weaken causing failures to feed." This has gone as far as shooting competitors actually unloading their magazines between stages to extend the life of their springs. A variant of this myth is: "You should never load a magazine to capacity and should always leave it one round short." What if you need that round some day?
Recently, I read an article in a gun magazine suggesting you rotate your magazines so the ones not in use can "recover and rest." The same author uses the phrase "spring-set" to describe weakness of a spring because it was compressed for a long time. Hogwash. There's nothing further from the truth. Springs don't care how long they're compressed and don't require rest, recreation or even a vacation from time to time.
Shameful Spring Benders
To put this one to rest, you have to understand creep. Creep is the slow flow of a non-ferric metal like copper, brass and lead under force. At temperatures outside of a furnace, steel doesn't have any appreciable creep. Under most conditions, steel flexes and then returns to its original shape. When pushed past its elastic limit, steel will bend and not return to its original shape. All designers of well-made magazines make sure the spring never approaches the elastic limit when the magazine is fully loaded. Honest. This means the spring will not weaken when the magazine is fully loaded -- not even over an extended time. Like 50 years. American Handgunner recently ran a story about a magazine full of .45 ACP that had been sitting since WWII and it ran just fine on the first try. So there you go.
Now that the light of truth is leaking out, lets talk about what is causing failures to feed. The only way to weaken a magazine spring is to flex it past its normal range (elastic limit). If this is happening, somebody is trying to overload a magazine or has "adjusted" it by bending the spring. Both of these could cause feed failures. Shame on you if you're a spring bender.
Carlton Nether, Customer Service for Beretta USA, tells us keeping a pistol magazine loaded for an extended period doesn't cause magazine spring failure, however, failures to feed can result. He says, "The ammo will 'roll' in the magazine. If the mags are kept loaded and moved around a lot -- say on a cop's belt -- the rolling action can, over time, cause creases in the cases. These creases can cause malfunctions. Also the top bullet will roll against the magazine lips and creasing can occur there as well. Just check old ammo that's been bouncing around in a magazine for a long time.
We tell police officers if they keep loaded magazines, take a few seconds to "cycle" the ammo. Periodically unload the mag and reload it in a different sequence. This movement will allow the bullets to be in different parts of the magazine and help eliminate creasing.
At STI, Dave Skinner, President and CEO says, "Personally, I rotate my 'under the bed' and 'under the seat' mags about every six months. I always empty them the 'fun' way and have never had a failure." Given what we learned above, this sounds like a good idea. Smith and Wesson customer service also says magazines can stay loaded indefinitely without hurting the spring.
As we add force onto a spring, it will displace the same amount for each amount of force we add. This is true until the spring passes a certain point called the elastic limit. Robert Hooke discovered this theory back in 1660. Hooke's Law states: "If the applied forces on a body are not too large, the deformations resulting are directly proportional to the forces producing them." Which means, in actual human being language, if we load a spring past its elastic limit, it permanently deforms. It still provides a force against the load but the force is no longer proportional. If this happens, when we unload the spring (such as when we empty a magazine that has been over-loaded) the spring never returns to a state where it can provide the same load for the same amount of displacement.
Trust Us
When a magazine manufacturer designs a spring, they plan for a preload. The spring is already compressed some in the magazine. On the curve below, this would be Point A. The spring compression would be designed to be below the Elastic Limit. When fully compressed, the spring would be at Point B. If the spring is ever compressed past the elastic limit, say to Point C, it won't ever behave the same. Like a recalcitrant lazy Uncle, it will have a lower spring force for each amount of displacement. On the drawing, the spring would now cycle between points D and E. This means that -- particularly with the last bullet or two -- the force pushing the bullet up would be less and lo-and-behold, a mis-feed might occur.
When somebody stretches your spring to "fix" your magazine, they are trying to get you back on the original curve. They may get pretty close, however, it's unlikely the spring will ever perform to its original design. The elastic limit is now shifted lower and your magazine spring may fail to perform fairly quickly.
Having said all this, if you have a magazine that isn't feeding right, what should you do? First, disassemble the magazine and clean it thoroughly. Then try it with new, factory ammunition in a freshly cleaned gun. This takes away some of the possible causes. If you are still having feed problems, send it back. Even the low cost, after-market magazine manufacturers will fix the problem at no cost to you other than shipping. If it's a magazine from the gun's manufacturer, let them troubleshoot and repair the problem. Otherwise, toss the mag. It's not worth risking your life to save a few bucks. And that's the truth.
RELATED ARTICLE: Definitions
Creep: The flow or plastic deformation of metals held for long periods of time at stresses lower than the normal yield strength.
Elastic Limit: The maximum stress that material will stand before permanent deformation occurs.
Yield Strength: The stress at which the metal changes from elastic to plastic in behavior, i.e., takes a permanent set.
Permanent Set: Non-elastic or plastic, deformation of metal under stress, after passing the elastic limit.
Magazine Recommendations
* Clean your magazines when they get gritty. Apply oil then remove all excess. Oil attracts dirt that may cause malfunction.
* If you find rust on the spring, this is culprit. Rust changes the thickness of the metal and reduces the force applied to the follower. Cleaning off the rust may help. For a gun you depend on, replace the spring. All the major brands and most of the smaller ones have replacement mag springs available or try Wolff Springs.
* If you keep a magazine loaded for long periods, rotate the rounds every few months. If you carry a pistol on the job or in your car, cycle the ammo frequently. These actions prevent creases from forming which may cause a misfeed.
* If you experience feed problems, first clean your magazines and weapon. Fire a couple magazines of new factory ammo to see if this resolves the problem. If not send the magazine back to the manufacturer -- or toss it.
The magazine spring myth has been around for many years and is growing in popularity. It goes something like this: "You should unload your magazines when they're not in use or the spring will weaken causing failures to feed." This has gone as far as shooting competitors actually unloading their magazines between stages to extend the life of their springs. A variant of this myth is: "You should never load a magazine to capacity and should always leave it one round short." What if you need that round some day?
Recently, I read an article in a gun magazine suggesting you rotate your magazines so the ones not in use can "recover and rest." The same author uses the phrase "spring-set" to describe weakness of a spring because it was compressed for a long time. Hogwash. There's nothing further from the truth. Springs don't care how long they're compressed and don't require rest, recreation or even a vacation from time to time.
Shameful Spring Benders
To put this one to rest, you have to understand creep. Creep is the slow flow of a non-ferric metal like copper, brass and lead under force. At temperatures outside of a furnace, steel doesn't have any appreciable creep. Under most conditions, steel flexes and then returns to its original shape. When pushed past its elastic limit, steel will bend and not return to its original shape. All designers of well-made magazines make sure the spring never approaches the elastic limit when the magazine is fully loaded. Honest. This means the spring will not weaken when the magazine is fully loaded -- not even over an extended time. Like 50 years. American Handgunner recently ran a story about a magazine full of .45 ACP that had been sitting since WWII and it ran just fine on the first try. So there you go.
Now that the light of truth is leaking out, lets talk about what is causing failures to feed. The only way to weaken a magazine spring is to flex it past its normal range (elastic limit). If this is happening, somebody is trying to overload a magazine or has "adjusted" it by bending the spring. Both of these could cause feed failures. Shame on you if you're a spring bender.
Carlton Nether, Customer Service for Beretta USA, tells us keeping a pistol magazine loaded for an extended period doesn't cause magazine spring failure, however, failures to feed can result. He says, "The ammo will 'roll' in the magazine. If the mags are kept loaded and moved around a lot -- say on a cop's belt -- the rolling action can, over time, cause creases in the cases. These creases can cause malfunctions. Also the top bullet will roll against the magazine lips and creasing can occur there as well. Just check old ammo that's been bouncing around in a magazine for a long time.
We tell police officers if they keep loaded magazines, take a few seconds to "cycle" the ammo. Periodically unload the mag and reload it in a different sequence. This movement will allow the bullets to be in different parts of the magazine and help eliminate creasing.
At STI, Dave Skinner, President and CEO says, "Personally, I rotate my 'under the bed' and 'under the seat' mags about every six months. I always empty them the 'fun' way and have never had a failure." Given what we learned above, this sounds like a good idea. Smith and Wesson customer service also says magazines can stay loaded indefinitely without hurting the spring.
As we add force onto a spring, it will displace the same amount for each amount of force we add. This is true until the spring passes a certain point called the elastic limit. Robert Hooke discovered this theory back in 1660. Hooke's Law states: "If the applied forces on a body are not too large, the deformations resulting are directly proportional to the forces producing them." Which means, in actual human being language, if we load a spring past its elastic limit, it permanently deforms. It still provides a force against the load but the force is no longer proportional. If this happens, when we unload the spring (such as when we empty a magazine that has been over-loaded) the spring never returns to a state where it can provide the same load for the same amount of displacement.
Trust Us
When a magazine manufacturer designs a spring, they plan for a preload. The spring is already compressed some in the magazine. On the curve below, this would be Point A. The spring compression would be designed to be below the Elastic Limit. When fully compressed, the spring would be at Point B. If the spring is ever compressed past the elastic limit, say to Point C, it won't ever behave the same. Like a recalcitrant lazy Uncle, it will have a lower spring force for each amount of displacement. On the drawing, the spring would now cycle between points D and E. This means that -- particularly with the last bullet or two -- the force pushing the bullet up would be less and lo-and-behold, a mis-feed might occur.
When somebody stretches your spring to "fix" your magazine, they are trying to get you back on the original curve. They may get pretty close, however, it's unlikely the spring will ever perform to its original design. The elastic limit is now shifted lower and your magazine spring may fail to perform fairly quickly.
Having said all this, if you have a magazine that isn't feeding right, what should you do? First, disassemble the magazine and clean it thoroughly. Then try it with new, factory ammunition in a freshly cleaned gun. This takes away some of the possible causes. If you are still having feed problems, send it back. Even the low cost, after-market magazine manufacturers will fix the problem at no cost to you other than shipping. If it's a magazine from the gun's manufacturer, let them troubleshoot and repair the problem. Otherwise, toss the mag. It's not worth risking your life to save a few bucks. And that's the truth.
RELATED ARTICLE: Definitions
Creep: The flow or plastic deformation of metals held for long periods of time at stresses lower than the normal yield strength.
Elastic Limit: The maximum stress that material will stand before permanent deformation occurs.
Yield Strength: The stress at which the metal changes from elastic to plastic in behavior, i.e., takes a permanent set.
Permanent Set: Non-elastic or plastic, deformation of metal under stress, after passing the elastic limit.
Magazine Recommendations
* Clean your magazines when they get gritty. Apply oil then remove all excess. Oil attracts dirt that may cause malfunction.
* If you find rust on the spring, this is culprit. Rust changes the thickness of the metal and reduces the force applied to the follower. Cleaning off the rust may help. For a gun you depend on, replace the spring. All the major brands and most of the smaller ones have replacement mag springs available or try Wolff Springs.
* If you keep a magazine loaded for long periods, rotate the rounds every few months. If you carry a pistol on the job or in your car, cycle the ammo frequently. These actions prevent creases from forming which may cause a misfeed.
* If you experience feed problems, first clean your magazines and weapon. Fire a couple magazines of new factory ammo to see if this resolves the problem. If not send the magazine back to the manufacturer -- or toss it.
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I can vouch for case creasing. Happens on Gold Dots.
I would like to see a difference in testing between CMMG's twisted wire springs and standard MILSPEC springs.
I would like to see a difference in testing between CMMG's twisted wire springs and standard MILSPEC springs.
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Words mean things.
-Mark.
-Mark.
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You could hit some people over the head with scientific data and personal experiences and they'd still walk around completely dumb to the concept you are trying to explain...
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Loaded Loaded Loaded.
Takes too long to load when someone it breaking in....
Takes too long to load when someone it breaking in....
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You're comparing a single-stack 1911 mag to a 30rnd AR-15 mag. By this logic I should never have to replace my shocks in my truck either...
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Well Riot, If you parked your truck in a gun safe and never drove it for 10 years chances are the shocks could be fine. Except for the fact that they are likely hydraulic and full of fluid and the seals would leak.
Maybe comparing the suspension springs would be a better analogy?
Maybe comparing the suspension springs would be a better analogy?
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