Buying sbr lower question

[Yarome]

No, quite simply it's 15yrs of dealing with NFA stuff, reading and hearing about it from lawyers and the ATF themselves.
From your responses though, it certainly seems like this is all new to you and you're taking the most paranoid/conservative interpretation possible. But you do you. Just know that it is NOT the reality of the NFA world.

The only type of firearm that does not change configuration is a Machine gun. Once a machine gun, always a machine gun, until it is destroyed/cut per ATF regulation.

It's always amusing when someone makes the "I'm holier than thou" argument without having a single clue what my background and experience is with the FFL world, the alphabet or how closely I've been involved with the new alphabet rule making process.

Great for a good chuckle, for sure.

"I've been doing it for years and the alphabet's recent weaponization and zero tolerance policies of late can't touch me." I'm quite sure most every FFL that recently had their licenses revoked under brandon's rule were extremely confident in their understandings and practices as well, but you do you!

When someone new to the issue is asking, I tend to try and do them the justice of providing info that is factual and in-line with the current climate... where gun owners are vilified and prospected for lawfully exercising their 2A rights while criminals "rights" are protected.. then leave it up to them to decide what level of risk they are comfortable with choosing.

With NFA's, the alphabet has never before come out and said the frame/receiver is the NFA. With SBR's, they did, which would may very well denote a clear change in approach and really should give any reasonable person a moment of pause of how exactly they are planning on handling SBR issues.

If you had watched the congressional hearings, you would also know that the senators tried to nail down the issue of exactly what the alphabet would consider constructive possession. The Diddler refused to answer their direct questions and basically left the issue as "constructive possession" being determined on a case-by-case basis. Not that diddleback is any authority on firearms or alphabet policy... he's just the director in name only... but such as it is, the standard for constructive possession remains ambiguous.


Regardless of what my own choices are, what I don't do it go around telling people that ask about the law is that how "I" choose to interpret and act on the laws are fully legal and they're good to do the same. I've seen others in this group trying to argue that, "if they don't actively enforce something... it's legal". Which is BS. "Legal" means that no law against it exists and there is no chance of prosecution. Not actively enforcing something is simply them letting you get away with it... until... they decide you no longer can.

Case in point. For decades, FFL's losing their licenses over unintentional clerical errors would have been wholly unreasonable and completely unheard of. Need I say more?

All that said, I fully acknowledge there are practices that aren't being actively enforced in the way that they "could" be and there is a lot of latitude in what a person can get away with... without an "unreasonable" amount of risk. My whole point is... be aware of what the law says, understand how it "may" affect you and choose for yourself accordingly.


In my mind... passing off, "this is what you can get away with" as "valid legal practice" is completely irresponsible. YMMV

 

[wired]

Thanks for the response, was simply addressing the last two statements. It is possible.

Note that if the federal legal standards described were/are true, you could put a rifle upper on an SBR lower and legally cross state lines without removing it from the registry. I'm no expert so I'm not going to try it, nor know if it's the case.

Just because someone is selling one like that doesn't mean its possible. Its not. An SBR is a gun. Not a lower.

 

[wired]

Sorry, but respectfully, that's incorrect with the type of SBR the OP described. What you highlighted is for an NFA that is permanently altered. Like the example they give for a shotty. As it states... the short barrel discarded/destroyed and a longer barrel permanently affixed. THEN it is no longer an SBR/SBS.

The alphabet has been very clear in their faq's with the new rule that according to them, the registered receiver is the SBR and subject to all NFA rules. IE., interstate travel. With exception, but that doesn't apply to the situation in the OP. Very much like you can't put a pistol upper on a receiver that was sold as a "rifle" receiver and carry it in your vehicle under regulations for "handguns". Only "pistol" or "other" receivers.

However, most states... it's the full firearm that is the SBR. IE., A state that bans SBR's you could legally configure it as a rifle. For the feebs... it's still an SBR.

In that instance though, the problem you will run into is that the feeb's will not authorize a 5320.20 (authorization for interstate transport) to a state where SBR's are banned. So while you would be in compliance within that state with a 16" upper on it... the feebs "could" still nail you for transport from your home state without authorization.

From the ATF FAQ:
Q: If I remove the short barrel from the registered SBR or SBS, is the receiver still subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations?

If the possessor retains control over the barrel or other parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm would still be subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations. ATF recommends contacting State law enforcement officials to ensure compliance with state and local law.

Q: If I remove the short barrel from my SBR or SBS, may I move the firearm across state lines without the submission of ATF Form 5320.20, Application to Transport or to Temporarily Export Certain Firearms?

If the registrant retains control over the parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm is still subject to all requirements of the NFA. ATF recommends contacting law enforcement officials in the destination state to ensure compliance with state and local law.


Not saying you couldn't likely get away with it. They don't really seem to enforce the 5320.20's in any way and even if you had a LE encounter in another state they are most likely to judge your firearm as a whole... and not just the SBR registered receiver.

Simply.... by the "letter of the law"... the feebs consider the SBR'ed receiver as the SBR and as unlikely as it may be that a person would ever find themselves in an encounter with an alphabet agent... they "could" still jam a guy up.

Youre reading way too much into that FAQ. Its worded correctly but certainly not concisely. I suppose it can be a bit misleading without context. The first answer and the second answer say the same thing. ALL guns are subject to NFA rules. Those same NFA rules apply to each and every title 1 gun. All NFA rules apply all the time to everything including SBR's when in title 1 configuration. An SBR that is in non SBR configuration is a title 1 gun and subject to all the same NFA rules every title 1 gun is subject to. They are NOT saying that SBR's are still SBR's when they are in non SBR configuration. I can drag out the FAQ that says you can sell your SBR as a title 1 without notifying them if it makes you feel better. All they are saying is that all guns are subject to NFA rules. Its a thing they like to do to confuse the easily confused .When they say SBR they mean in SBR configuration not just registered as an SBR. It is factually correct and misleading at the same time.

There are a couple of companies that do the SBR lower transfer thing on a form 3 to your dealer . Its usually for people who want a Colt SBR but its hard to get Colt SBR's in regular channels. Colt discourages it and penalizes stocking dealers and distributors for selling their SBR's to the public . They get away with it because the ATF doesn't really care all that much if you part out a gun and sell the lower on a form 4. I have bought and sold them that way. Its not required though and you can contact Arms Unlimited and they WILL sell you the lower at the same price without it being on a form 3 to your dealer. Some other companies wont and get pissy if you ask them to even though theyre technically in the wrong. They sell like that because Colt SBR lowers command a premium without form 1 engraving. 9mm lowers especially so.