Anyone own a rifle in .358 Winchester?????? I have a few Q's

Discussion in 'Rifle & Shotgun Discussion' started by eganx, Dec 1, 2011.

  1. eganx

    eganx Active Member

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    So I was thinking of rebarreling my Remington 700. So I am thinking of a different cartridge. Looking at the ballistics of the .358 Winchester it looks like it will do pretty much everything I would want it to quite well. One question is accuracy....how does it to out around 200yrds? With a 250gr bullet does it kick like a mule? I have never really heard of this cartridge......is there a reason its not very popular?
  2. eganx

    eganx Active Member

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    Wow.....this cartridge must really be unpopular.
  3. Redcap

    Redcap Well-Known Member

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    Never heard of it.
  4. Mark W.

    Mark W. Well-Known Member

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    Your asking about a somewhat rare big game hunting round on a forum where most of the people are into military style semi automatic rifles

    The 358 is basically a .308 necked up to .35 cal. Lets call it a .35 Whelen short. Just like a .308 is a 30-06 short.

    some ballistics on it from a reloading book.

    with a 250 gr slug your looking at a 2200-2300fps round The Seirra offerings in .35 cal and that weight have a ballistic co. of .422 and .353

    So looking at .422 at 2300 fps (MAX LOAD) your looking at dropping 6.4" at 200 yards 22.2" at 300 yards if zeroed at 100
    .353 at 2300 fps (MAX LAOD) your looking at dropping 6.7" at 200 yards 23.6" at 300 yards if zeroed at 100

    So your looking at a short to medium range brush gun. LONG Eastern Oregon Mule Deer shots are going to involve a protractor and a lot of adjustment in your scope.
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  5. eganx

    eganx Active Member

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    I looked in my Nolser manual and with their partition bullet, 225gr, only drops slightly more than a 165gr 308(12" difference at 400 yards) and the FPS difference is under 400 at the muzzle and under 200 at 400 yards. From what I can tell it would do just as well as a 308 at a reasonable distance and better the closer you are to your target.

    I was just wondering if anyone had actual experience with this cartridge. I guess I'll ask on another forum.....maybe the firingline
  6. motoman98

    motoman98 Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I am a big 35 caliber fan. I have always wanted to get a .358 win but they are too hard to find. I went for the .350 Rem mag instead. It has the capacity more like the 30/06 so the "mag" and the belt were a sales thing. A little better ballistics, but even in a light weight rifle recoil is not that bad, I`d call it stout. 200 gr bullets for deer, 225-250 grain for Elk. The 35 whelen is about the same. I know in the midwest they use Thompson Encore single shot pistol's in .357 maximum for deer and they work well.
  7. Mark W.

    Mark W. Well-Known Member

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    eganx I gave you numbers for a 250 gr slug because that is what you were asking about. of course a lighter bullet is going to start out faster and fly farther. But at any rate its still a big slow Short (100yard) to Medium (200yard) range caliber.

    This was the bolt action replacement for Winchesters amazing .348 (which was only ever offered in the Winchester Model 71 lever action) one of the best brush and guide combinations.
  8. eganx

    eganx Active Member

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    I found this.... 358 WCF

    I have plenty of reloading manuals to pull FPS and BC out of.....I was just looking for some input from folks who have experience with the .358 to convince me to make the change.

    From what I have been reading this cartridge can reach out to 500 yards with a 150gr bullet. Hell with a modern 225 gr bullet it would still be around 1500fps at 400 yards. Based on the reading I have done I would disagree that it is a sub 200 yard caliber. Although I don't think I would try a shot at any game from more than 400 yards.......
  9. orygun

    orygun Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    If I was thinking about what the OP is thinking about, I'd look at the .338 Federal (.338-08). Got a friend who built one and just loves it.
    It's not a 35 cal, but there is a better bullet selection for .338.
  10. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Well, Old Lazarus just won't stay down. Heavy large diameter slugs (such as launched by the .358, .350, .338, etc) were for years touted as "brush calibers" due to the belief they would "punch right through vegetation" to the intended target.

    Not so very recently (and recently, over and over again), this has been proven to be absolutely false.

    I believe it was Jim Carmichael who, in the seventies or eighties did a very objective measure of "brush bucking ability" of a wide range of cartridges. He constructed a duplicatable obstacle of multiple dowels glued into a board and fired through the obstacle to a target.

    Time after time, and with attention given to the "proven" brush busters (.45-70 included), the results were almost universally miserable: some unexpanded bullets (deformed upon first impact) may not have even hit the target holder. Keyholing rampant. Almost without exception, bullets would not have even hit the vitals if his target had been live. He found one cartridge that SOMETIMES managed to deliver a bullet in a vague proximity of intended destination. Not the cartridge he expected, or one any of us might expect: Wait for it....here it comes....

    The .264 Winchester Magnum. His hypothesis was that its long bullets of relatively good integrity and extreme velocity allowed it to (on RARE occasion) "brush bust" through to the target paper. His conclusion was that there are NO good "brush busters" existant, and NO shot should be taken at live game with such an obstacle in the bullet's path. I believe Rick Jameson and others have repeatedly duplicated his results with varying methods of obstacle construction.

    Among all the "Zombie Theories" of ballistics and cartridges, "brush bucking ability" is the hardest one to kill.
  11. Idaho spud

    Idaho spud New Member

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    In my opinion, the .358 Winchester is one of the best all around killers in the world. Like most that are built on the .308, it hits where you point it.

    My Ruger Hawkeye .358 Winchester will print groups of 1/2 all day long. It does out shoot my Tikka 7-08, my browning 30-06 A bolt, and every other rifle at the range that given day! I shoot the buffalo bore 225 gr barnes loads at 2500 fps. It doesn't kick any harder than my 30-06. Kinda like a mild shove.

    I love my .358:thumbup:
  12. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I will set up camp with Idaho Spud along with his admiration of the .358. For someone wanting a medum-bore cartridge that is truly sensible and adequate for any North American game, the .358 just might be the best choice there is. Short action availability and compatibility with shorter barrels (22"), this makes for a very compact, yet very powerful gun. Potato Boy's reference to nearly any cartridge based on the .308 case being blessed most usually with very good accuracy has my vote as well. Moderate recoil (as he rightfully mentioned) for a medium bore undoubtedly contributes to users' ability to shoot good groups with it, and almost without exception this characteristic itself might allow him to walk all over the compadres who show up at the range with the big belted magnums. Few who own them can shoot them well, even if the gun itself might be an accuracy gem.

    I will criticize his contribution in only one regard: Shooters of more than moderate experience will take his good contributions with a much heavier grain of salt than they would otherwise when he includes the time-worn and threadbare statement that his good gun "will print groups of 1/2 all day long". It's not that we can definitively say it won't (because we can't). It's merely that our experience tells us that this is extremely improbable. The point here is that his gun MAY WELL be one in a thousand factory guns that actually do this; they ACTUALLY DO EXIST. But, if I owned one, I would not include that statement in a website contribution where I wanted people to take everything else I said as reliable information. When I see it (or similar statements), my view of everything else along with it comes under much greater scrutiny. In this case, I found all else in his posting to be right on the money. Perhaps his gun is too.
  13. orygun

    orygun Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    Man, you do love some odd-ballz. First the 250-3000 and now this!:thumbup:

    I'll bet you have a soft spot for the British .303, too.:)
  14. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Honestly, my personal choice in this field is the .350 Remington Magnum. Less "sensible" than the .358, but a true short-action Whelen. My M700 Classic will NOT shoot 1/2" all day long. But it is VERY accurate with the Nosler 225g Partition, and drove that bullet ball-of-shoulder out the far hip on the oldest, stinkiest silver-faced 250lb Muley in the world.

    As for the .303 British, some young punk is trying to talk me out of my components and dies, depriving me of an excuse to buy the gun.:yes:
  15. orygun

    orygun Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    Then maybe you'd like to buy my rifle?:angeldevil:
  16. Idaho spud

    Idaho spud New Member

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    I've never owned a more accurate rifle. When this thing first followed me home I only thought of it as my odd ball elk rifle. Not after several visits to my local range. Heck, it may be the ammo for all I know? However, this thing was placing three shots almost inside eachother at 100yds. Perhaps it understood that it had to good for all the hell I recieved from my wife. I think I'm on the one gun per year thingy now.

    During this last hunting season my 358 didn't let me down. One shot = one buck in freezer. Paper ballistics are one thing, visual damage is another. Big heavy bullets are time tested.
  17. Idaho spud

    Idaho spud New Member

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    Hornady is now making factory .358 ammo
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  18. motoman98

    motoman98 Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Here is an update! CDNN Sports(800.588.8500) is running an end of the year ad.
    They have the all weather Ruger M77 Hawkeye rifles in various calibers including the .358 Win!!
    About $549.
    Their shipping to your FFL is fast and reasonable.
    (I don't have any $ interest in them)
  19. Third

    Third Member

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    My father in law has a .358 win BLR, he now shoots a 300WSM because there's no ammo for .358 win, virtually anywhere, I pointed out buffalo bore and the new hornady, he flipped when he saw the low price on the hornady.
  20. Third

    Third Member

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    As for brush busting, same father in law has a "camp fire story" about dropping a forked horn blacktail in it tracks with 300WSM after the bullet went through a rotten limb (here's where he holds up his hands and makes a 4-5 inch diameter circle) at 120 yards,,,, and yes there are a lot of holes in that story.