1847 Walker Colt ?

Discussion in 'Handgun Discussion' started by winlinton, Aug 18, 2011.

  1. winlinton

    winlinton New Member

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    Can anyone make a comment on this supposed 1847 Walker Colt ?

    It is marked on the left side; "D Company No.32" ......twice only....on frame under cylinder & just above barrel locking wedge.

    However, it has s/n: 1826 marked in 4 places (that I can see...) on the underside.

    Also, the gap between the barrel locking wedge and the bit just above the loading-rod seems a lot wider than many Walker photos I've seen.......

    I suspect this is an aged 2nd Generation Walker.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  2. Mark W.

    Mark W. Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    well there were only 1100 of the first Walkers made. Does this one have a 7.5" or 9" barrel? The originals had the 9" barrel. Also since all Walkers were issued I would strongly suspect any Walker that did not have pronounced holster wear on the tip of the barrel. Notice the wear on this example

    http://www.icollector.com/images/1200/17067/17067_0130_1_lg.jpg

    I would bet money this is a reproduction
  3. ogre

    ogre Well-Known Member

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    I also think it's a reproduction. I hope that madcratebuilder will weigh in on this one.
  4. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Well-Known Member

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    Well, here's a picture of me with both of mine, LOL. I don't know if that's a reproduction or not. I saw one in a museum that was actually in better shape than the OP one. Just because it was issued doesn't mean it was carried much. Some officer might have just put one in his trunk.


    [​IMG]
  5. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Well-Known Member

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    Reproduction, Italian at that. Still a nice shooter, seen a bunch of these around the black powder forums and on Gunbroker. I think these were a commemorative issue of some type, sold for way to much money when new. Considering what Italian Walkers are going for I guess it's $300 or more revolver.


    This is a 2nd Gen Colt Walker that I reworked to appear as the originals. No bluing on cylinder, tighten the barrel gap and oiled the furniture.

    [​IMG]

    The real deal.

    [​IMG]
  6. usmc

    usmc Active Member

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    didnt the last original go at auction for something like $920,000 ?
  7. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Well-Known Member

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    That particular Walker sold for nearly a million dollars because of it's long documented history. It belonged to two different lawmen of the old west, It had documentation from the time it left Colt. A period Walker in good condition may bring 50k. If you could come up with Jack Hayes' Paterson and DOCUMENT it you would be a millionaire.

    Do you think I can pass this off as belonging to Coffee Jack. Maybe I can carve his name on the inside of the grips!!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  8. winlinton

    winlinton New Member

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    Well, the Colt I asked about sold for GB-£2,000 here at an auction in Glasgow.

    The auctioneer pointed out before bidding that it had been confirmed that it was a "19th C. reproduction", whatever that is ?!?!

    As far as I am aware, the first "repro", or 2nd Gen. was Colt's own from 1980, and this one wasn't even in good condition if it was one of them....roughed-up to look older ?

    I think the buyer paid £1,700 too much !
  9. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Well-Known Member

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    Colt had to deal with "counterfeits" or "19th C. reproduction" right from the get go.

    The Walker you posted is a 1970-80's reproduction by ASM or Uberti. The "troop" marking were added by a obscure company selling them as "commemoratives". The revolver in your photo appears to have had additional "aging" done to it. These are not common but I have see a dozen or more of them on auction sites and listed by private sellers, all had the same troop marking. Value is about $350-450 plus any premium you are welling to pay for the "aging".

    The 2nd Gen Colt Walker is from the 70's and has a book price of around 1K if NIB.

    You are correct, the buyer paid about 1,700 to much.
  10. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Well-Known Member

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    If I'm reading that right, that's pounds, or about $3k USD selling price.
  11. tac

    tac Active Member

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    That is probably the wust possible thing that the seller tried to do, to pass off #1826 as a 'real deal', but then, he noted that it was a 19th centry repro, didn't he?

    I personally own 'Colt Walker' Serial #1816. Photos to anybody who emails me for them. Made by Colt Black Powder Arms of Brooklyn NY, and sold over here in UK some time in 1980, according to the 1979 proof marks. I bought it, still in its original black box, in 1986.

    On mine, underneath the loading lever, out of sight of a casual look, the following details are stamped in accordance with the Proof Acts of the United Kingdom -

    Crown over intertwined CP - London Proof House stamp -

    then - 44 NOT NITRO 1 1/2 DRS [DRAMS] BLACK POWDER 140GRS BALL - LP over 79 - this is the London Proof House date of 1979.

    Additionally, every space between each chamber has Crown over CP stamped on it.

    Crown over intertwined CP is also stamped on the frame in front of the trigger guard.

    As for the OP's pictures - well, it's a nice fake, but still a fake, even if a contemporary 19th century fake. But as the sellers reportedly stated that it was a reproduction - a common enough item in the 19th century of most, if not all Colt pistols - what's the beef? They were usually Belgian-made, and mostly pretty well done, at least from the appearance point of view, and can be quite valuable in their own right as a contemporary copy. The selling price is high, but as one poster notes, buying wars happen everywhere, and an antique gun sale-room is no exception. Personally, I would have thought that a de-farbed modern version replica would have made around £300-400, as another poster noted.

    Sadly, that would have gotten the seller in a world of pain, as selling a modern replica - called a Section 1 Firearm over here in UK, with all identifying proof marks removed - de-farbed, if you like - would attract an unlimited level of fine, recall of the dealer's business licence, and maybe even time indoors wearing a natty grey suit provided by the gubmint.

    In any case, returning to the original pistol, one in THAT condtion - the 'real deal' - would have likely had a starting price of around $1/4 Million and gone up from there to expensive.

    tac
  12. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't it seem logical that if the bidders were fooled into thinking it was real, it would have brought a lot more than 2k pounds? Maybe where it sold, a nice repro was worth that much to at least 2 bidders? As the old saying goes, it takes just 2 bidders to make an auction.

    I've seen two egos get into a bidding war and pay way too much more than once in my time.

    Maybe if another one just like it went through the same auction to a different crowd, it would bring 300 pounds. ??
  13. tac

    tac Active Member

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    Might just do on a real bad day, but even my replica, since it is a 'real' Colt replica with all the bits and pieces, would sell easily for around £600-700 here in UK.

    A new ASM or even a used Uberti replica is still hovering around the £300 mark, but for some the cachet of owning a 'real' Colt, even a second generation version, has a real catch to it. My local dealer has one of the U.S. Grant cased commemoratives for £1650.00, BTW.........

    tac
  14. Mark W.

    Mark W. Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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  15. winlinton

    winlinton New Member

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    The catalogue described it as an "1847 Walker Colt".....no-where does it suggest could be a repro.

    Only at the instant it came up for auction (I listened live online....) did the auctioneer mention that "they now reckoned it was
    a 19th C. repro." ....... !!

    In the old days, before online auctions, you'd have to view the thing to make your judgement as to what it's worth. To my mind the auctioneer did not do their job of correctly vetting this revolver, and made thus online buyers left to decide from afar what it really was !
  16. tac

    tac Active Member

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    If the auctioneer publicly acknowledged that it was a 19th century reproduction, more often known as a 'Brevette' or copy, and they STILL bid it up to the selling price it achieved, that is entirely their lookout. The auctioneer has fulfilled the letter of the law insofar as he has offered it for sale under its true colours, and not as a 'GENUINE COLT WALKER'.

    Believe me, if this HAD been the real thing, then collectors over here/there would have invaded that salesroom in their hundreds and been all over it like a rash.

    In any event, the serial number should have been the give-away - the serial numbers for the companies are as follows -

    A Coy - highest number known to date - 220 - 39 survive.

    B coy - highest number known to date - 204 - 27 survive.

    C Coy - highest number known to date - 219 - 37 survive.

    D Coy - highest number known to date - 218 - 26 survive.

    E Coy - highest number known to date - 115 - 18 survive.

    Civilian highest number known to date is 1091 - 16 survive.

    With a number like 1826 AND a company issue stamp as well it was only ever going to be as real a video of the Gettysburg Address.

    tac
  17. tac

    tac Active Member

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  18. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Well-Known Member

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    mjbskwim and (deleted member) like this.