Thread: Can you handle a shootout? Video showing reg students in chl senario.

Came across the video looked interesting and a very good look at what you may face if put in a position to have to draw your weapon.
I think this video aims to undermine the ability of those who carry weapons, but still good to focus on.

Goes to show you should always be training, be comfortable with your firearm and holster, and the process in which you would deploy that firearm.
Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

YouTube - Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, Part One

YouTube - Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, Part Two

Why maybe you shouldn't open carry

YouTube - Guy with the gun robbed of his gun, because he had one. Was the robber afraid? Don't think so.

Originally Posted by clearconscience

Came across the video looked interesting and a very good look at what you may face if put in a position to have to draw your weapon.
I think this video aims to undermine the ability of those who carry weapons, but still good to focus on.

Goes to show you should always be training, be comfortable with your firearm and holster, and the process in which you would deploy that firearm.
Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

YouTube - Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, Part One

YouTube - Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, Part Two

Wow, great videos!

Top rated quote on the first video . . .

This video is Bull Sh**,putting trained law enforcement personell,and shooting instructors againist a bunch of young students is not a study, i guarentee if you would have put someone in there like myself whom is a combat expierenced Infantry soldier, the outcome would have been much different. The average scum bag or home invader is not gonna be a trained police officer. Yes proper training is necessary to be efficient but this is joes vs pros...get real...

I agree with this.

Also, the first video was heavily slanted against an successful outcome. The holster was awkward and the people were inexperienced with it. The shirt was deliberately long and oversized to get in the way. The helmets also limited vision and peripheral awareness. The shooters knew exactly who had the gun ahead of time which gave them an unfair advantage.

A totally stacked deck against a successful outcome.

Yeah it makes you think about the need to practice drawing a weapon in the way you conceal carry, or any way you may carry.
And when your faced with the increase of adrenaline then you will be shaky, fumbling, making mistakes, etc.
I always think it's good to do training out in the woods where your able to do activities to make it more realistic.
Run a little bit and get your heart rate up before shooting, do some push ups get your arms a little fatigued.
Makes it a little more realistic I think.

It would be sweet to find a abandoned building and do some room clearing, assault exercises with paintball guns to get a little more realistic view of what it may be like to clear your house if broken into, etc.

Originally Posted by PBinWA

Top rated quote on the first video . . .



I agree with this.

But still it puts people in real world senarios. While it's true these people are not pros, and they make this video to demean or give no credit to CHL holders or people with experience. Their trying to express their view that it will do no good for people to carry guns. It's BS.
But it still has a valid point and makes you realize more training and continued training is always needed.

Originally Posted by PBinWA

Top rated quote on the first video . . .



I agree with this.

Also, the first video was heavily slanted against an successful outcome. The holster was awkward and the people were inexperienced with it. The shirt was deliberately long and oversized to get in the way. The helmets also limited vision and peripheral awareness. The shooters knew exactly who had the gun ahead of time which gave them an unfair advantage.

A totally stacked deck against a successful outcome.

Well, in my opinion that's exactly the point. Honestly, how many people with their chl actually practice doing fast draws, especially under extreme conditions? I doubt very many. Most people buy a holster, put their gun in it and feel that's enough.

You would be surprised how many people think that's enough. Or think because they have owned or handled guns their whole life are complacent with that "training".
And it's hard to practice the draw and fire when you can't do it at almost all gun ranges.
There was an Iraq vet in Tualatin that was hired on the Police Dept and was practicing drawing his weapon looking in the door mirror in his bedroom when his wife walked in startled him and he shot and killed her.
There's no easy way to do it, and it hard to know how to react when that situation may never come. Hope it never comes.

But people need a reminder to practice, and practice the right and responsible way. Don't practice drawing with a loaded weapon, because your going to make mistakes when practicing drawing at first.

Originally Posted by clearconscience

You would be surprised how many people think that's enough. Or think because they have owned or handled guns their whole life are complacent with that "training".
And it's hard to practice the draw and fire when you can't do it at almost all gun ranges.
There was an Iraq vet in Tualatin that was hired on the Police Dept and was practicing drawing his weapon looking in the door mirror in his bedroom when his wife walked in startled him and he shot and killed her.
There's no easy way to do it, and it hard to know how to react when that situation may never come. Hope it never comes.

But people need a reminder to practice, and practice the right and responsible way. Don't practice drawing with a loaded weapon, because your going to make mistakes when practicing drawing at first.

Exactly my point. There's so many people that think they're ready for this sort of situation. I disagree. I feel most of us are horribly unprepared. I remember the officer that shot his wife, very sad.

Originally Posted by Shooter98

Well, in my opinion that's exactly the point. Honestly, how many people with their chl actually practice doing fast draws, especially under extreme conditions? I doubt very many. Most people buy a holster, put their gun in it and feel that's enough.

How many people are actually going to be in scenarios where a fast draw is required. I suspect it is statistically insignificant. In most cases a reasonably cautious person will most likely have the awareness to draw or being a state of readiness.

I thought it was interesting in the videos that most of the people did not appear to shoot with reckless abandon. They tried to stay on target and did better than expected. I suspect ABC was hoping for more innocent casualties.

Security is a mindset and involves multiple layers based on the situational threats. That being said training is good - there is no argument there.

I bet you could do the same to a room full of cops thinking they are there for a meeting and have a staged guy come in and start firing and I bet the cops would hit the deck. It's human nature if you are in a place you feel very comfortable and someone comes bashing through a door.

Originally Posted by Scott

I bet you could do the same to a room full of cops thinking they are there for a meeting and have a staged guy come in and start firing and I bet the cops would hit the deck. It's human nature if you are in a place you feel very comfortable and someone comes bashing through a door.

Hitting the deck would be the correct thing to do.

This was an attempt to "demonstrate" how pointless your being armed is.. an anti gun piece, IMO

Diane Sawyer is an anti gunner of well known repute

Truth is millions of Americans have used guns to save themselves and others over the years. This was an extreme scenario that 99.99999% of us will never face unless the real SHTF

I have used a drawn handgun 6 times to ward off attack and never even had to fire a round. My lady, twice. This video also ignores natural ability and intuition

I saw that when it was originally on ABC News. It was called "If I Only Had a Gun". It was clearly an anti-gun propaganda piece to make using a gun for self-defense in a college classroom look ridiculous. 20/20 If I Only Had a Gun - Unabashed Anti Gun Propaganda | LearnAboutGuns.com*

It was very artificial. The "gunman" knew which student was supposed to be the "defender" and immediately went after them. All of the "students" were wearing large helmets that inhibited their hearing and vision and ridiculously long T-shirts that made it difficult to draw their weapon. It was completely biased and artificial.

It was originally discussed in this thread "If I Only Had a Gun"

Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg

This was an attempt to "demonstrate" how pointless your being armed is.. an anti gun piece, IMO

Diane Sawyer is an anti gunner of well known repute

Truth is millions of Americans have used guns to save themselves and others over the years. This was an extreme scenario that 99.99999% of us will never face unless the real SHTF

I have used a drawn handgun 6 times to ward off attack and never even had to fire a round. My lady, twice. This video also ignores natural ability and intuition

Originally Posted by BSG 75

I saw that when it was originally on ABC News. It was called "If I Only Had a Gun". It was clearly an anti-gun propaganda piece to make using a gun for self-defense in a college classroom look ridiculous. 20/20 If I Only Had a Gun - Unabashed Anti Gun Propaganda | LearnAboutGuns.com*

It was very artificial. The "gunman" knew which student was supposed to be the "defender" and immediately went after them. All of the "students" were wearing large helmets that inhibited their sight and vision and ridiculously long T-shirts that made it difficult to draw their weapon. It was completely biased and artificial.

It was originally discussed in this thread "If I Only Had a Gun"

Exactly as stated it was nothing but an attempt to make defending yourself with a concealed handgun look like it should only be for the "properly trained" (police). Sadly most sheeple will be discouraged about getting a permit by such a ridiculously anti gunner slanted study. Who wears masks and gloves regularly when carrying let alone an overly long shirt? I think even the best trained cop or instructor would have failed that scenario with that many odds against them.

Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg

I have used a drawn handgun 6 times to ward off attack and never even had to fire a round. My lady, twice. This video also ignores natural ability and intuition

jeezus man...where do you LIVE?!?

So slanted I almost fell off my chair watching this....

Originally Posted by gunslinger1911

jeezus man...where do you LIVE?!?

Well in full disclosure it was in the madhouse called commiefornia. Mass attack 3 times (rape packs I warded off who were trying for my wife and or my sister) and various other crazies. Since we moved up here 20 + years ago it's been more peaceful.. I wonder if the Shall Issue lisc has anything to do with that?

(No, I don't really wonder, the difference in how the baddies act up here is quite startling)

Let's take a look at their premise. The "shooter" enters a room where he knows the EXACT location of the armed student. He enters and engages the student first. The student is given a non-concealed holster and then they wrap his shirt around it or tuck it in so tight he has to undress to draw the weapon. Yeah, that's real.

In REALITY, I have drawn a weapon on armed bad guys in the dark of night and engaged them in the light of day, it works. The idea that LEO's are the only people with training or knowledge to engage a bad guy is laughable. LEO's have the advantage of having a gun in the open and body armor, if they are tactically at a disadvantage they also have help available with a simple radio call. The CCW is on his own and is as likely to be killed by cops as bad guys for simply drawing his weapon. The CCW holder is always at the disavantage and has to be more aware of whats happening.

If you look at the North Hollywood bank robbery, hundreds of policemen failed to do anything to two idiots for hours. They failed to find themselves basic cover, to bound or move under fire in ANY direction, they failed to mass their firepower or aim for unprotected areas of the robbers bodies. They fired hundreds upon hundreds of rounds with ZERO hits, they failed to secure a perimeter around the engagement and the bad guys walked out of the area. When cops ran to a gun store to procure ammo and weapons, not a single cop asked for a 300 Win Mag or 375 H&H, even a 30-06 bolt gun would have ended this mess in two pulls of the trigger.(a complete lack of firearms knowledge by LEO's) The two robbers eventually died of boredom.

If you look at Columbine H.S., law enforcement sat outside until the two shooters killed themselves. Virgina Tech? Law enforcement sat outside until after the shooter had killed over 30 people and killed himself. Go back to 1984, a madman shot 41 people in a McDonald's in San Ysidro California. The police sat outside and watched him kill dozens for 77 minutes before they decided to shoot the killer. He fired 257 rounds unanswered by law enforcement. Pre 9/11 if you fought a hijacker on a plane you would have been arrested when it landed, if it landed. This brainy plan led to more than two thousand deaths.

For nearly THIRTY years the primary plan of law enforcement is to lay back and let the massacre continue until the attacker or attackers run out of ammunition or kill themselves then conduct an investigation. The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled time and time again that law enforcement is not obligated to protect you as an individual but society as a whole. Based on this idea they have tossed hundreds of lawsuits from victims of crimes in which the victim was abandoned to his or her own fate by cops.

I'll take my chances with a CCW and some good luck thank you very much.





P.S. I'm not a cop, never claimed to be and never said I could do all of the things they have to deal with on a daily basis from the public or criminals at large. I'm just one of the many people who happen to think that if I have a chance to defend myself between the time a crime against my person occurs and the 45minutes it will take for a LEO response, I might survive.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
" that was hired on the Police Dept and was practicing drawing his weapon looking in the door mirror in his bedroom when his wife walked in startled him and he shot and killed her. "
What was this mimrod doing practicing his draw at home with a live weapon. Please explain this to me