Thread: Do you offer advice at the range?

Went to the range recently and saw a guy shooting without very good results. One of the things I noticed was his finger was leaving the trigger after each shot. I asked him if he knew about the Glock trigger reset. He said he did and I left it at that.

Do you ever offer advice at the range? Maybe a better question would be do you ever want advice at the range?

For me it depends on where the advice is coming from. I would love advice from people who know what they are talking about, but there are often those who know next to nothing, or certainly less than I, but act like they know everything. I actaully learned about the glock trigger reset from a guy recently when up at Larch Mountain shooting. (though I don't think my results were that bad..lol)

If he wasn't asking for help and wasn't being a danger then I'd leave well enough alone. He probably had no idea about trigger reset and didn't care for a tutorial.

I like advice as long as it quick and it doesn't take up all my trigger time.

Originally Posted by Kimber Custom

Maybe a better question would be do you ever want advice at the range?

If I don't know who you are, no.

Reason being, I've seen WAY too many dumba**ses on the range that shoot their mouths off to anyone within earshot about things they obviously don't have a clue about.

If there's a better way to accomplish something I'm doing, I'll let the instructor of my next class tell me that.

Originally Posted by Kimber Custom

Went to the range recently and saw a guy shooting without very good results. One of the things I noticed was his finger was leaving the trigger after each shot. I asked him if he knew about the Glock trigger reset. He said he did and I left it at that.

Do you ever offer advice at the range? Maybe a better question would be do you ever want advice at the range?

Sounds like me about 4 months ago you didn't help me then did you

I like advice because i am not a very good shot, i was literally doing the exact same thing... with my glock taking my finger off the trigger and shooting bad groups. A guy came over to me(he just happened to be one of the designers of the Kimber and a police firearms trainer) and made a few slight adjustments and BAM tight groups all night long!

So i guess my answer is I don't give advice because i usually dont' have much good to input but i do take free advice if somebody knows what they are talking about.

Not unless they do something to endanger somebody.

That's whats good with being an RSO as I can go when nobody is there. That's when I go and I don't go on days thats it's open to the public.

Originally Posted by Dell_dude

If I don't know who you are, no.

Reason being, I've seen WAY too many dumba**ses on the range that shoot their mouths off to anyone within earshot about things they obviously don't have a clue about.

If there's a better way to accomplish something I'm doing, I'll let the instructor of my next class tell me that.

Aren't my qualifications on the target in front of me for you to see? I mean I can understand you not wanting to take diet advice from me since I'm 100lbs over weight but if I'm shooting better groups than you at 3x the distance isn't it clear I might know something about handguns?

Originally Posted by Kimber Custom

Aren't my qualifications on the target in front of me for you to see? I mean I can understand you not wanting to take diet advice from me since I'm 100lbs over weight but if I'm shooting better groups than you at 3x the distance isn't it clear I might know something about handguns?

I understand what you're saying, and for some people, you may well be correct.

Personally, if I'm not sighting a weapon, I'm unconcerned with super tight grouping.

If the rounds are striking within the 5 3/8" black circle, I'm happy, and I will continue to attempt to put more and more into that circle in the same time duration.

If they are not, then I'm trying to figure out what I did to cause them to not be in there, which is most likely poor trigger manipulation (AKA jerking the trigger).

I would never offer advice to anyone that was making 6" groups unless I knew them.

I guess the people I am tempted to 'assist' are the ones that have targets that look like they are using a shotgun. Just seems like ammo is too expensive to just go bang bang bang with.

Originally Posted by Kimber Custom

I would never offer advice to anyone that was making 6" groups unless I knew them.

I guess the people I am tempted to 'assist' are the ones that have targets that look like they are using a shotgun. Just seems like ammo is too expensive to just go bang bang bang with.

There was someone like that last time I was on the range.

Took this dude 3 shots with a 12GA to hit a milk jug @ 15M.

After that episode, I started packing up.

Originally Posted by Dell_dude

If the rounds are striking within the 5 3/8" black circle, I'm happy,

Read an article over Christmas that was talking about precision shooting as being over rated. Not to say tight groups aren't cool but when push comes to shove 1"-3" left or right on a man sized target at 21' isn't going to make much difference.

He recommended reactive targets so you don't spend all of your time worrying about if you hit the center of the ring or not. A hit is a hit.

Originally Posted by Kimber Custom

Read an article over Christmas that was talking about precision shooting as being over rated. Not to say tight groups aren't cool but when push comes to shove 1"-3" left or right on a man sized target at 21' isn't going to make much difference.

That's pretty much my opinion on it. The temporary cavity from 9MM or greater will pretty much do what you need it to do if you're in that circle, or even on the paper for that matter. If you're within a 12" x 10.5" box centered on the chest, something vital is getting torn up.

So while training, I consider anything within the black circle excellent, and anything on the paper "OK", but leaving room for improvement.

Originally Posted by Kimber Custom

He recommended reactive targets so you don't spend all of your time worrying about if you hit the center of the ring or not. A hit is a hit.

I'd like to get some of those, but damn they're a bit spendy.

Originally Posted by Dell_dude

That's pretty much my opinion on it. The temporary cavity from 9MM or greater will pretty much do what you need it to do if you're in that circle, or even on the paper for that matter. If you're within a 12" x 10.5" box centered on the chest, something vital is getting torn up.

So while training, I consider anything within the black circle excellent, and anything on the paper "OK", but leaving room for improvement.



I'd like to get some of those, but damn they're a bit spendy.

The article suggested shotgun clays

Originally Posted by Kimber Custom

The article suggested shotgun clays

That's a thought.

I might have to pick some up and try it out.

Several friends took the defensive handgun/ccw course at Front Sight - the grouping standard for the CCW class was put your open hand over the group - if the group is larger than your hand you need to slow down and improve accuracy, if your group is smaller than your open hand you are taking too much time.

As for at the range - If your target is far worse than mine don't bother trying to school me- if you are shooting as good or better I'm open to constructive criticism/suggestions provided you aren't doing it in a condescending way. Its all a matter of how the subject is approached.
As for giving advice - if I see someone who is making obvious mistakes and is getting terrible results I might offer some assistance if they are receptive - if they are not interested I won't push the issue.

Originally Posted by Swedish K

Several friends took the defensive handgun/ccw course at Front Sight - the grouping standard for the CCW class was put your open hand over the group - if the group is larger than your hand you need to slow down and improve accuracy, if your group is smaller than your open hand you are taking too much time.

As for at the range - If your target is far worse than mine don't bother trying to school me- if you are shooting as good or better I'm open to constructive criticism/suggestions provided you aren't doing it in a condescending way. Its all a matter of how the subject is approached.
As for giving advice - if I see someone who is making obvious mistakes and is getting terrible results I might offer some assistance if they are receptive - if they are not interested I won't push the issue.

Don't really understand the reasoning there. Would you please expand on that??

Originally Posted by Swedish K

Several friends took the defensive handgun/ccw course at Front Sight - the grouping standard for the CCW class was put your open hand over the group - if the group is larger than your hand you need to slow down and improve accuracy, if your group is smaller than your open hand you are taking too much time.

As for at the range - If your target is far worse than mine don't bother trying to school me- if you are shooting as good or better I'm open to constructive criticism/suggestions provided you aren't doing it in a condescending way. Its all a matter of how the subject is approached.
As for giving advice - if I see someone who is making obvious mistakes and is getting terrible results I might offer some assistance if they are receptive - if they are not interested I won't push the issue.

I used to think this way as well...especially about the accuracy thing. I realize that most shots are from about 2-7 feet and end in one to two shots. However, there is nothing wrong with going back to the basics and just taking a few range days slowly firing and getting good accuracy. Ask any "professional" about how they can shoot great under stress and they will tell you the same thing- they learned to master the basics.

If you anticipate the recoil, have poor trigger control and body possition, you will always shoot worse than if you just got a firm grasp at the basic fundamentals of shooting. Master those first, then practice double-taps and whatnots. Even going back to basics will never be for waste...dry fire drills and trigger reset practice will never hurt your shooting skills.

As for the advice portion, if the guy or gal is shooting just fine then I leave them be and I only offer advice if I happen to strike up a conversation with them or they come to me with questions.

You betcha I want advice!
But... I want your advice, and then I want to evaluate it, try it on for size, and discard if it doesn't suit me - without having you get on my back.

For instance, if you see something I could easily improve - let me know. Please don't accept this as an invitation to hover, correct everything I do and talk ceaselessly.

Originally Posted by MA Duce

Don't really understand the reasoning there. Would you please expand on that??

As this is information that was passed on to me and it was from a concealed carry class my take on it is as follows: in a self defense shooting situation you need to stop the threat as quickly as possible. If you shoot too fast accuracy will be lacking and you may be wasting time and ammo. If your group is small - say 2.5-3" you may be taking too much time and increasing the odds of injury/death for you/intended victim. If your group is about the size of your open hand and placed in the right area it should stop the threat. Shoot at the speed that will stop the threat fastest.
Or - Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.