Thread: How to handle armed confrontation?

I had a death dream last night but it got me thinking...

Say you do not typically carry but you move into a new area and are not 100% sure you are comfortable in the area. So you go take you dog for a walk and decide to carry because who knows what the area is like as its all new. While walking there are (2) males walking towards you and you think nothing of it. Ad they get closer and about 10' away they both pull out guns and demand your wallet and threaten to kill you. What do you do, draw up against two men or hand over your wallet?

Then then again the same suituation but this time only one guy.

In my dream I tried to draw but ended up getting blasted away

I don't typically carry unless I am in a questionable location, so any advice would be great!

I don't carry because I am unfortunately not 21 yet. My question is, what isn't a questionable area?

Keep your head on a swivel and hopefully avoid letting anyone get the drop on you.

Give 'em my wallet: Pull wallet with right hand (quartering away - left arm closer to them). Then swap wallet off to left hand to reach out and throw 'em my wallet on the ground at their feet.... trying to stay keep as much distance as possible between us. , meanwhile right hand going back on my right hip - prepare to draw if an opportunity or need arises.
Giving them the wallet will likely end the confrontation, but their reaction as they are picking it up will likely tell the "nap of your neck" if you need to be pulling your gun or not - in which case it is going to get VERY VERY ugly.

I'd rather live to fight another day without a wallet.

You said "taking the dog for a walk..." My pit bull is my backup in a situation like this. It adds one more distraction element for the bad guys to worry about, and helps tip the scales in my favor.

Take the money clip with a $5 wrapped over 3 $1's out of your pocket. Hold it up enough that they can see what it is and toss it away.

Use the distraction to draw and shoot or run the other way depending on what the tactical situation looks like. The dog might also be useful here if it's a large enough dog and senses your tension.

simple just give them the wallet, not worth getting killed over, as for all you cowboys who want to draw against two guns already out , what flowers would you like at your funeral.

Here is my answer to that...

Tom Cruise's Briefcase scene where he drops two guys in an alley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ch9kAs3LFg

Statistics indicate that you have a better chance of survival if you resist an attack than if you submit

The first thing would be to cross the street or otherwise prepare to avoid them and or prepare to draw if shady characters approach you. I have drawn first several times when I knew it "was on".. if they were armed I never found out because they backed away fast

This is what The Adjudicator down at OFA is for. We think we know what we'll do, but unless we train we'll be mostly wrong. Force on force training helps immensely.

Originally Posted by SSG

Here is my answer to that...

Tom Cruise's Briefcase scene where he drops two guys in an alley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ch9kAs3LFg

That was quick thinking by his Thetans.

Originally Posted by cbzdel

I had a death dream last night but it got me thinking...

Say you do not typically carry but you move into a new area and are not 100% sure you are comfortable in the area. So you go take you dog for a walk and decide to carry because who knows what the area is like as its all new. While walking there are (2) males walking towards you and you think nothing of it. Ad they get closer and about 10' away they both pull out guns and demand your wallet and threaten to kill you. What do you do, draw up against two men or hand over your wallet?

Then then again the same suituation but this time only one guy.

In my dream I tried to draw but ended up getting blasted away

I don't typically carry unless I am in a questionable location, so any advice would be great!

That's not how it's going to happen. If there's two guys walking towards you. One is going to keep a gun on you while the other lifts your wallet and such.

In this case they take your wallet, and thank you for the new gun.

Let the wallet get stolen. Let the gun get stolen. They are much less likely to be investigated for a mugging, but murder does get investigated.

I think it was on this board where I saw the saying "Don't go anywhere with your gun that you wouldn't go without it."

But if you're fast, and their slow, theres a good chance you can kill both with a head shot. But this takes very intense training. Something I doubt most of us would have, probably not even most law enforcement.

I agree with Sheepdog.

In all likeliness, the thugs will put distance between you and them to avoid to avoid being disarmed. So no Karate Joe moves. A 2 on 1 situation will make sure of that as well.

But here is some more information. Why are you walking in an area that someone would be comfortable with confronting you with a weapon out in the open. There aren't many of those areas.

Also, get a bigger dog. And I speak as someone who frequently walks 2 Akita/Pitbull mixes with a combined weight of 160 lbs. They are very smart and have a good judge of character and body language. They will see things before I do. And they will stare people down who are threats.

If someone has a gun on you and yours isn't already drawn, they are ahead. You will get shot most likely, trying to disarm them. People generally engage in coercion through an assessment of risk, and concluding they have an advantage. The 2 thugs, have been watching you, assessed you are not readily armed, assessed that your dog poses little threat, assessed that no one is nearby that will thwart their plans, assessed they can overpower you or keep you pinned while they perform their act, assessed they outnumber you, assessed that they can perform their deed in a reasonable amount of time, and assessed that the reward outweigh the risks. You need to preemptively change the risk analysis before coercion happens through:

Bigger or more aggressive looking dog

Different dress that implies you come from a different, or lower money area( leather biker jacket maybe and ripped jeans)

Walk away from a potential party of people rather than toward

keep a small .32 or small caliber gun in your pocket with one hand on it, pointed out for shooting if the situation warrants it.

walk in well lit areas

Show confidence and no fear. Look like someone who messes with people rather than someone who is messed with. Don't be a victim. Use direct eye contact and strong body language. Keep passing dialog to a "what's up" or "ey". You don't smoke. You don't have change or money because you just got laid off. Tell them you have to keep moving or your ankle bracelet will go off.

Akido teaches that you must be prepared to absorb over 90% of your opponents blows if you are to fight in close. If you can't do this you should not fight. Evade or submit or perform subterfuge.

The PNW is not an area you have to worry about armed conflict from the general public for the most part. This place is a Mayberry compared to the East Coast. I lived in downtown Atlanta for a decade and never got messed with. A lot of it is how you carry yourself.

Ok, lets take this scenario one step further.

Say you do give them your wallet and they turn and start to leave. What do you do then? Just let them get away with it and make yourself scarce and then notify police?

Or do you do what all of us here really want to do....draw and get the drop on them when they turn away to leave?

I know I was taught in CCW class that if your life isn't in immediate danger, you should just get away and report it to police.

But given a mugging, and police priorities, they may never get around to actually tracking those thugs down and if you don't stop them now, tomorrow night will just be another target for them.

Originally Posted by Decidion

Ok, lets take this scenario one step further.

Say you do give them your wallet and they turn and start to leave. What do you do then? Just let them get away with it and make yourself scarce and then notify police?

Or do you do what all of us here really want to do....draw and get the drop on them when they turn away to leave?

I know I was taught in CCW class that if your life isn't in immediate danger, you should just get away and report it to police.

But given a mugging, and police priorities, they may never get around to actually tracking those thugs down and if you don't stop them now, tomorrow night will just be another target for them.

Uh....once your life is no longer in danger, you can't shoot them. Well, you can, but you will get prison time if you do. You must be able to prove that you believed your life to be in immediate danger if you shoot someone, and once they are walking away, that is no longer the case.

Originally Posted by John Brown

Uh....once your life is no longer in danger, you can't shoot them. Well, you can, but you will get prison time if you do. You must be able to prove that you believed your life to be in immediate danger if you shoot someone, and once they are walking away, that is no longer the case.

Technically correct, but you could get your wallet back immediately.A reverse mugging if you will. If one of them draws on you after the fact then you could shoot them. It was still a mugging and still self defense. Not saying I would do that, but I would consider it.

Originally Posted by Ravenous

Technically correct, but you could get your wallet back immediately.A reverse mugging if you will. If one of them draws on you after the fact then you could shoot them. It was still a mugging and still self defense. Not saying I would do that, but I would consider it.

You just escaped getting killed. Would you really want to go right back there?

It wouldn't be what I would do. There would be nothing in my wallet or on my person that is worth my life.

But....I'm only talkin AFTER the fact here. Before the fact, I would have had my hand on a gun before anyone got close to me, and I would have used it, because at that point I would not know what their intentions were regarding my life.

Life is more important then any amount of money in your wallet. If they were going to harm you then you would be dead. If you are caught off guard and already have a gun in your face not much you should do but listen and give them replacable item and as you are dropping them back up speak loudly " JUST TAKE IT, I WANT NO TROUBLE" this will alert others in the area and make the robbers hurry to leave.

There are so many senerios on what if... One of the the most important weapons on you is your brain. getting out of a life threating issue without firing a shot is best. If you do fire your weapon hit your target and make sure it is down. remember that you have to live with your choice, so make sure you can!

keep safe
practice makes permanent

Originally Posted by John Brown

You just escaped getting killed. Would you really want to go right back there?

It wouldn't be what I would do. There would be nothing in my wallet or on my person that is worth my life.

But....I'm only talkin AFTER the fact here. Before the fact, I would have had my hand on a gun before anyone got close to me, and I would have used it, because at that point I would not know what their intentions were regarding my life.

I would most likely be considering it as I sat at the dinner table telling my fiancee about how I got mugged earlier that day. I guess lately I have just been getting tired of the way we are letting the criminals dictate our lives... I can't drive here, or shop there, it is to dangerous. The thug mentality is all to common anymore. I think that once the filth started hitting my neighborhood(fairly nice area) I would be re-evaluating how I would act. I hate the idea of being afraid to walk my dogs or go to the neighborhood park. It would be great if the criminals were afraid to come to my neighborhood instead.

We just need to remember that once there is no longer a threat to our lives, we cannot use deadly force, or it will be us who are the bad guys. Lawyers for the BG's next of kin would have a field day with such a scenario.

I am someone who HAS drawn a handgun on a BG. The guy had a knife, and threatened to slit my throat. Guns usually will beat a knife, as long as distance is enough. It wasn't a fun scenario, It was 25 years ago.

I felt like putting one between his shoulder blades as he ran away. Glad I didn't.

Originally Posted by Ravenous

I would most likely be considering it as I sat at the dinner table telling my fiancee about how I got mugged earlier that day. I guess lately I have just been getting tired of the way we are letting the criminals dictate our lives... I can't drive here, or shop there, it is to dangerous. The thug mentality is all to common anymore. I think that once the filth started hitting my neighborhood(fairly nice area) I would be re-evaluating how I would act. I hate the idea of being afraid to walk my dogs or go to the neighborhood park. It would be great if the criminals were afraid to come to my neighborhood instead.

Somehow I doubt this is that much of a problem in West Linn...

Much like me in Lake Oswego.

Originally Posted by SnackCracker

Somehow I doubt this is that much of a problem in West Linn...

Much like me in Lake Oswego.

I know Just imagine how bad things will be everywhere else when it gets to the point where we have to worry about it. However I do work in SE and that does make me nervous.