Thread: AR Question Re: Heavy Buffers

AR pistol and short barreled rifle:

I've read that a heavy recoil tube buffer helps in several ways with shorter barrels.

Question?

There are H, H1, H2, & H3 buffers. Each being heavier.

Which is best?

Thanks for helping!

I will assume that you are shooting 5.56/.223. It will actually depend on the ammo being used and the length of gas system utilized. Short gas systems have a very high pressure and the heavy buffer slows down the action a bit. In my experience H and H1 would be considered the same, standard heavy, then escalating in weight for H2 and H3. Spikes is making heavy buffers with tungsten powder inside and they actually feel smoother than the standard tungsten weights. I personally would try an H2 and see how it feels, making sure it locks open on last round. An H3 is likely heavier than needed for a standard 5.56 pistol setup.

Stupid me...I should have listed what I am shooting.
Son and I are each doing a new build.
Son wants a pistol.
I haven't decided between 11.5" or 14.5" for mine.
5.56/.223 with 55 gr - 77 gr. bullets.
Factory ammo and safe/conservative med - max. reloads.

Both of the barrel lengths you mentioned typically are provided with a carbine length gas system. In my experience a heavy buffer could actually be problematic in the 11.5" because the bullet is exiting the bore just a couple of inches past the gas port in the barrel. They will cycle reliably but seldom need a heavy buffer. I use an H2 on my 14.5" but that is also in conjunction with a suppressor. The 14.5" also keeps the gas system pressurized several milliseconds longer before the bullet exits the bore. With most 5.56 loads, especially XM193, the pressure is higher and the system will cycle more "aggressively." The 11.5" combo with a heavy buffer and a medium .223 55gr load could cause a short stroke situation.

Originally Posted by nubus

could cause a short stroke situation.

Same thing my x-wife used to complain about!

nubus covered it well. If you are building two rifles buy one H buffer and one standard and maybe a H2 or ST-T2 from Spikes. You have to try it in the particular gun. The barrel gas port size has a big effect on the buffer needs.

I'm using a ST-T2 in my 12.5' barreled gun when shooting xm193. If I shoot cheaper .223 I have to go with the H buffer to avoid occasional short stroking.

NOVESKE Flash Suppressor Designed for short barrel AR15's helps with the short stroke action problems and also does amazing job limiting the flash.

I have the Spikes buffer in my 14.5" 1:8, carbine length gas setup. Troy Midevil Brake

Shoot 55-68 GR 5.56 usually (never an issue of any kind with XM, BVAC, Bitterroot or Silver bear)

VERY noticable difference with it over the standard buffer. Even seems to run quieter.. Best 30 dollar upgrade ive done to it.




(Video example removed) Thank you Iterwebz police. You have earned 1 donut.

Does that sign, along side the road you are shooting down, say "no target shooting"?

Yup:

If i was on the other side shooting I would have been illegal.

This was on the side you CANT see:





In other words where we were was fine.

I could........ but your PM box is full...

You were still shooting down a road.....Or does it just appear to be a road.


To the original topic.... I run a H2 buffer in a 14.7" carbine. It works flawlessly with whatever I feed it. The gun shoots much softer then with the standard buffer. The empty brass isn't thrown so far either.

You posted a video of yourself breaking the law and being unsafe on the internet.

Oregon:
166.630 Discharging weapon on or across highway, ocean shore recreation area or public utility facility. (1) Except as provided in ORS 166.220, any person is guilty of a violation who discharges or attempts to discharge any blowgun, bow and arrow, crossbow, air rifle or firearm:

(a) Upon or across any highway, railroad right of way or other public road in this state, or upon or across the ocean shore within the state recreation area as defined in ORS 390.605.

Washington:


RCW 77.15.460

Loaded firearm in vehicle — Unlawful use or possession — Penalty.
(1) A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle if:
(a) The person carries, transports, conveys, possesses, or controls a rifle or shotgun in or on a motor vehicle; and
(b) The rifle or shotgun contains shells or cartridges in the magazine or chamber, or is a muzzle-loading firearm that is loaded and capped or primed.
(2) A person is guilty of unlawful use of a loaded firearm if the person negligently shoots a firearm from, across, or along the maintained portion of a public highway.

Thank you officer.... About that.

Funny Thing is, not so much....

Where I was was fine (and PERFECTLY legal)

How about you 2 kids just remove the posts and stay on subject.We are trying to have the adults post good info here.

it did get a little out of hand didn't it. ashame this is how a lot of good threads with good topics end up with a silly online dispute. there's been so many threads i've opened, only to skim through pages of trash talk. jeez guys, mucho take it easy

so back to buffer tubes and gas systems. i've always wondered, since a rifle length gas system works best, couldnt you use a rifle gas tube and wrap it around the barrel compact it to fit a carbine? i mean gas will still have the same distance to travel , meaning it wont be a high pressure blast slaming into the action. so instead of the gas tube going straight from gas block to upper, it'll wind around the barrel or wind back and forth like a silly straw. so buffer weight and bolt carriers are less critically factored items. what do you guys think?

some might think its a bit hokey, but i think its no more hokey then powder filled buffers that create a dead blow effect.

I fed the netpolice troll. My bad...


OP:

I have some videos of my aforementioned setup if youre interested in seeing it.




Like i said above, it made a notable difference. In a way I liked, alot.

Originally Posted by 74sporty

it did get a little out of hand didn't it. ashame this is how a lot of good threads with good topics end up with a silly online dispute. there's been so many threads i've opened, only to skim through pages of trash talk. jeez guys, mucho take it easy

so back to buffer tubes and gas systems. i've always wondered, since a rifle length gas system works best, couldnt you use a rifle gas tube and wrap it around the barrel compact it to fit a carbine? i mean gas will still have the same distance to travel , meaning it wont be a high pressure blast slaming into the action. so instead of the gas tube going straight from gas block to upper, it'll wind around the barrel or wind back and forth like a silly straw. so buffer weight and bolt carriers are less critically factored items. what do you guys think?

some might think its a bit hokey, but i think its no more hokey then powder filled buffers that create a dead blow effect.

Man that would take a lot of thought and experiment.Every corner would slow the gas down,and how rounded or square the corners were would make a big difference.Might not need the whole rifle length to make it work

Originally Posted by 74sporty

i i've always wondered, since a rifle length gas system works best, couldnt you use a rifle gas tube and wrap it around the barrel compact it to fit a carbine? i mean gas will still have the same distance to travel , meaning it wont be a high pressure blast slaming into the action. so instead of the gas tube going straight from gas block to upper, it'll wind around the barrel or wind back and forth like a silly straw. so buffer weight and bolt carriers are less critically factored items. what do you guys think?

Its been done already with the pig tail gas tube

Originally Posted by 74sporty

i've always wondered, since a rifle length gas system works best, couldnt you use a rifle gas tube and wrap it around the barrel compact it to fit a carbine? i mean gas will still have the same distance to travel , meaning it wont be a high pressure blast slaming into the action. so instead of the gas tube going straight from gas block to upper, it'll wind around the barrel or wind back and forth like a silly straw. so buffer weight and bolt carriers are less critically factored items. what do you guys think?

some might think its a bit hokey, but i think its no more hokey then powder filled buffers that create a dead blow effect.

There has a company making a "pig tail" gas tube. It didn't work. The speed that the gas travels you would need a tube longer than you could manage.

The barrel port size is important but not a user friendly modification. There are gas tubes with a small adjustable valve, I have used one on a Grendel, works pretty good, made by MCI. Buffer weight and spring tension are the best user friendly ways of dealing with a over gassed gun.

I think a lot of the issue isn't the length of the tube but rather the pressure provided and it's duration. In a 20" barrel you will inherently have less pressure at the rifle length gas port and the pressure remains somewhat steady until the bullet exits the bore six inches later. This does seem to be the most reliable combination. On a pistol length gas system the pressure curve is much higher at six or seven inches from the breach and depending on barrel length the bullet may exit as little as two inches after the gas port. I have fought numerous 18"/rifle length gas setups and even over drilling the gas port has only helped slightly. Of course consistently using the same ammo once a desired combination has been achieved is also an issue. PRI and others also make adjustable gas blocks. I've used the adjustable tubes and they were problematic with some handguard configurations. I too, minus the diversion above, like this thread in so much that it keeps me learning and keeps my mind open to how to problem solve with multiple thoughts and opinions.