Thread: Finally Made My Mind Up!

After a long, drawn out, decision making process, I've finally made up my decision for my battle/SHTF rifle. Things I though about were range, reliability, feel, and reputation. I did not consider weight, nor ammo price, because I plan to stay in my castle (home), and I can afford to buy around 2500 rounds of any caliber I considered, which should be a good start, as it's not going to be my primary defense, that is the shotgun's role. After all this thinking, and looking, and hearing every self proclaimed expert tell me this and that and yes and no, I've decided on a Springfield M1A, a plain, wood stock model. I feel that .308 is superior for power and distance over 5.56/.223, 20rd mags are plenty, when I am in cover (home), and I've talked to guys that have really used different guns, in battle, for days in a row, with their lives depending upon the weapon. I plan to buy 20 mags, 1500-2500rds, a good sling, and a good, 3-9 scope. I don't plan to snipe people, just defend my area from threats. Let's hear your thoughts!

Unless you live out in the boonies with plenty of unobstructed views and long distance shots, a scoped .308 is gonna suck. If you're a typical city/suburbanite, small/light/quick to aim wins the day. Or a shotgun.

I have long views to cover. For quick, close quarters, my weapon is a 18" barrelled 12ga..

If you are getting a scope make sure you buy a quality mount. Quality mounts for the M1A are not cheep, but are worth it. Ones like the Sadlak allow you to still use your open sights.

Second the M1A is GREAT in urban environments. Turns a lot of what would be cover from lighter rounds into simple concealment.

Third you will change your mind again it happens all the time. You can never had too many SHTF guns

My "truck gun" for many years now has been a MK-14 Mod 0 clone (bottom)

Yeah, in an urban environment, isn't a hi cap hand gun really the ticket? I have ar's, and would love to have an M1, but in a real world SHTF scenario...
just askin...
Highly concealable, and what not. Isn't the current school of thought that an AR in public is an instant death sentence?
And when I say AR's, I am including the M1.

Originally Posted by Garg

Yeah, in an urban environment, isn't a hi cap hand gun really the ticket? I have ar's, and would love to have an M1, but in a real world SHTF scenario...
just askin...
Highly concealable, and what not. Isn't the current school of thought that an AR in public is an instant death sentence?
And when I say AR's, I am including the M1.

Totally depends on what YOU define as SHTF. SHTF means something different to most people.

In the SHTF situation I see most likely to happen I say a 10/22 with a few good mags (including 25rd) and an ammo can full of ammo would be best all around. If I could have more then one gun I would add a pistol next followed by a centerfire semi auto rifle.

Nwcid, that Sage EBR sure is one H-E-double hockey sticks of a "truck gun!"


And, as usual, someboedy comes along around here and makes me jealous. That laminate stock is friggin' sweet!

Originally Posted by Nwcid

Totally depends on what YOU define as SHTF. SHTF means something different to most people.

In the SHTF situation I see most likely to happen I say a 10/22 with a few good mags (including 25rd) and an ammo can full of ammo would be best all around. If I could have more then one gun I would add a pistol next followed by a centerfire semi auto rifle.

Kinda wondering on why you would want a 22 in a SHTF situation. Has no stopping power and accuracy falls off around 50-75 yards. IMO, there are better options.

As far as the m1 for SHTF.......wouldn't be what I pick but better than nothing.

Originally Posted by Spray-n-pray

Nwcid, that Sage EBR sure is one H-E-double hockey sticks of a "truck gun!"

I was drooling on my keyboard looking at it!!

Realistically, pick your rifle for how you will actually use it, basing a choice on internet fantasy SHTF scenarios is just dumb. Learn ypur rifle and become proficient, if worst case does happen, you will be better off having a gun that youve shot and become familiar with than a ""tactical fantasy piece" that sits in the closet because ypu cant afford to train with it.

I grew up with the .223/5.56 round. Dad got Mom a Mini-14 for dear hunting and the Marine Corps allowed me 12 years of shooting. Now I am told you can't hunt dear with it and the Marine Corps kept my M16. I am no expert but doing a little web searching has opened my eyes to the .308. It would be legal to hunt dear or even bigger game and knowing that the round is capable of reaching out to 1000 yards is pretty cool. Good choice on the M1A.
Mike

Originally Posted by 22many

Kinda wondering on why you would want a 22 in a SHTF situation.

Again it all depends on what YOU define as SHTF. It is VERY obvious from your post that YOUR definition is NOT the same as MINE. For me I do not see hoards of roaming zombies that I have to ward off on an hourly basis (while also having to preform all the daily activities needed to survive, food, water, shelter). I do not see fun on urban combat (and if this happens how long can a person on their own last?).

What I see is more of a financial collapse. Why do I say this. Well it has happened before many times including in this country. That is for sure a SHTF. People were not running around in the street in the '20's and '30's in urban combat, they were poor and hungry trying to survive the best they could.

With a .22 you can EASILY store lots of ammo, 7700 rds of Federal Bulk pack boxes fit in a Fat .50 can. What other caliber can you do that with? It is cheep, it is light, it is functional, it is quieter then larger calibers. The guns are much lighter. Anyone can shoot them well with little practice due to the low recoil and noise. Say times are tight how are you going to stay practiced or teach new people to shoot with 1-2k of CF ammo? You can hunt anything from small game (without destroying it) to large game (you will have to learn to get close to take your shots and might not be "ethical" now but our ancestors use to run animals off cliffs with fire......)

Has no stopping power

Please define stopping power? Here is a real simple test for you. Would you stand out at 300-400 yards and let some one shoot you with a .22? Why not...................? Back to "stopping power" How many times do you think you are going to need this gun to make 100% magical 1 shot kill? Are you ONLY going to be shooting some kind of expanding bullet in your SHTF gun or are you stocked up on FMJ that makes nice little holes with little energy transfer?

I dont know about you but I can get a lot more .22 ammo on target much faster then I can any other gun I own. Yesterday we had some pumpkins out at the range. It takes about 5-6 seconds to literally cut a large one in half using a mag.

and accuracy falls off around 50-75 yards.

Please please please dont tell my guns that, they apparently dont know. I routinely shoot out to 300 yards (the length of my back yard range). While I agree that I am not shooting 1" groups I am able to keep it on a 12"x12" plate. Granted I usually do this with my suppressed 77/22 using SS ammo cause I like the click (noise the shot makes), 1-1000, 2-1000, 3-1000, TING (the bullet hitting). Yesterday I went out to a open shooting area with my boss. Had my .22 AR out with my CMR scope on it. Running both eyes open on 1x I was easily able to make rapid fire hits on pop cans in the 100 yard range.

IMO, there are better options.

This is the KEY quote. As I said before it depends on what YOU define things as. If everyone were the same then the world would be a very different place.

As far as the m1 for SHTF.......wouldn't be what I pick but better than nothing.

See above.


I say you need to do some more reading or more shooting with the guns of your screen name. Here is a link (sadly the pics are gone) that is very good, Lethality of the 22LR- Results! - Sniper's Hide Forums

If your ever in my area and what to shoot let me know.

I concur with NWCID a 22 is sufficient I trained with the Iraeli's and seen the Hush puppy in action, I was quite impressed and I now own 7 - 10/22's in different configurations. I also own 3 belt fed 22 which is the funnest thing in the wolrd to shoot and definately puts the lead down range for all the zombie's.

I'm not limited to 22's since I own flintlock's to an AMAC 1500. BUt if anarchy hits the 22 is what i will be carrying

Originally Posted by 22many

Kinda wondering on why you would want a 22 in a SHTF situation. Has no stopping power and accuracy falls off around 50-75 yards. IMO, there are better options.

As far as the m1 for SHTF.......wouldn't be what I pick but better than nothing.

As for stopping power,the Masad used 10 22s in the Gaza strip,silenced,to take care of the Palestinians.I'm guessing they knew what they were doing.

As far as accuracy,I can bounce a shotgun shell around at 100 yards with my 10 22.
Not a real battle rifle,but it can be very deadly in the right hands.
And bring home dinner without much meat loss.

As far as a 308 in an urban environment,hasn't it been proven over seas for years? Plus it can take down most any animal on the North American continent.
I'll go with the same caliber,just not sure about the M1.Still pretty interested in the AR platform

P1010125.jpg

Here's my M1A.

I'd have to say in a Urban Combat Situation, Nothing is better than a good ol' M1A.

It's balanced really well, so it's mobile, and even if it's a little long, that doesn't matter, I'll just switch to a compact shotgun or handgun if I have to.

Only problem, is that this one weighs 12 Lbs unloaded. But if it gets me through a firefight alive, then it's worth more than it's weight in gold.

.308 in 20-Round mags can go a long way. And most times about 100-120 rounds is all you need.

I really like the fact, that is things get real hot, I can use it like a Battle Rifle, and just blaze away, or If I need to, I'll use the scope and pop off precision shots.

This is no "Sporting Gun", It's a Weapon, and that's what it will always be.

These things served in Vietnam, and no real reliability problems were ever reported. The
only major thing that happened was the poor quality wood stocks warping, and affecting the zeroing on the sights. Fiberglass stocks and hand-guards eliminated this problem for good.

The M1A is the Epitome of the modern Battle Rifle.

I have one thing that I hope you have put a lot of consideration into:

Money.

If you got lots of it laying around doing nothing, and the cost of .308 ammo is nothing to you, then cool.

But if its not, and if this is going to be your main, shoot at every range trip, favorite to use, used enough that the finish starts to wear, go to rifle, then I would HIGHLY suggest buying something in 5.56/.223.

Yes, I know the difference in ballistic performance. Yes, I know many people THINK that the M1A/M14 platform is much more "reliable" than the M4/AR-15 platform (my first hand, combat experience with both would beg to differ).

But money is money. I know you said this rifle is for home protection/SHTF/blah blah blah, but if you are like me, the weapon that fills that slot, is my favorite, and gets shot a lot. I mean, A LOT. SHTF is not happening tomorrow, but I am going to the range tomorrow. I'm single, I have no major expenses, and I make decent money. But I would bankrupt myself shooting a .308 as much as I shoot my 5.56

my 2 cents

Originally Posted by Nwcid

Again it all depends on what YOU define as SHTF. It is VERY obvious from your post that YOUR definition is NOT the same as MINE. For me I do not see hoards of roaming zombies that I have to ward off on an hourly basis (while also having to preform all the daily activities needed to survive, food, water, shelter). I do not see fun on urban combat (and if this happens how long can a person on their own last?).

What I see is more of a financial collapse. Why do I say this. Well it has happened before many times including in this
country. That is for sure a SHTF. People were not running around in the street in the '20's and '30's in urban combat, they were poor and hungry trying to survive the best they could.


With a .22 you can EASILY store lots of ammo, 7700 rds of Federal Bulk pack boxes fit in a Fat .50 can. What other caliber can you do that with? It is cheep, it is light, it is functional, it is quieter then larger calibers. The guns are much lighter. Anyone can shoot them well with little practice due to the low recoil and noise. Say times are tight how are you
going to stay practiced or teach new people to shoot with 1-2k of CF ammo? You can hunt anything from small game (without destroying it) to large game (you will have to learn to get close to take your shots and might not be "ethical" now but our ancestors use
to run animals off cliffs with fire......)


Please define stopping power? Here is a real simple test for you. Would you stand out at 300-400 yards and let some one shoot you with a .22? Why not...................? Back to "stopping power" How many times do you think you are going to need this gun to make 100% magical 1 shot kill? Are you ONLY going to be shooting some kind of expanding bullet in your SHTF gun or are you stocked up on FMJ that makes nice little holes with little energy transfer

I dont know about you but I can get a lot more .22 ammo on target much faster then
I can any other gun I own. Yesterday we had some pumpkins out at the range. It takes
about 5-6 seconds to literally cut a large one in half using a mag.



Please please please dont tell my guns that, they apparently dont know. I routinely shoot out to 300 yards (the length of
my back yard range). While I agree that I am not shooting 1" groups I am able to keep it on a 12"x12" plate. Granted I usually do this with my suppressed 77/22 using SS ammo cause I like the click (noise the shot makes), 1-1000, 2-1000, 3-1000, TING (the bullet hitting). Yesterday I went out to a open shooting area with my boss. Had my .22 AR out with my CMR scope on it. Running both eyes open on 1x I was easily able to make rapid
fire hits on pop cans in the 100 yard range.



This is the KEY quote. As I said before it depends on what YOU define things as. If everyone were the same then the world would be a very different place



See above.



I say you need to do some more reading or more shooting with the guns of your screen name. Here is a link (sadly the pics are gone) that is very good, Lethality of the 22LR- Results! - Sniper's Hide Forums

If your ever in my area and what to shoot let me know.

While it is apparent that everybodys idea of a shtf is different it centers on the main purpose of protecting ones self
And family. If you are unclear of others peoples meanings of shtf then just do some reading on this forum and you will get a clue.

With that said, I would want to protect myself and family with as little violence as necessary. In the event that that cannot be avoided then Unfortunally my rifle comes out. All it would take is a couple shots from a "real" (that's right, i quoted it) rifle and the situation is gonna change. I would have no need for 7700 rounds in a 50 cal ammo can.


As far as stopping power, It is asnine to think that someone would use a 22 to shoot 300-400 yards out for the mater of protecting ones self. And if someone had too (I have no idea why) why would you choose a 22? As stated, there are other weapons out there to do a better job at that. Also, if someone is charging at you do you really think a 22 is going to stop them? Shot placement is everything but let's face it, a bigger caliber is going to do more damage. More damage = less threat. Hence, stopping power.

Yes, accuracy does fall off rather quickly with a 22. I choose 22 for cheap plinkering and im sure the majority of other people do also. With a 10/22 going for around $200 do you really thing people are buying it for 300-400 yard accuracy? No, its not designed for that. As far as my screen name, thank you for your concern about my reading and shooting. I
know my guns limits and my ammos limits. Don't agree with it? Fine. That's YOUR opinion.


Maybe you should start a thread about what people would choose for a shtf gun. Oh wait, he have a bunch of those and the majority are NOT 22s. Hate to burst your bubble.....

Originally Posted by Bellehood

I have one thing that I hope you have put a lot of consideration into:

Money.

If you got lots of it laying around doing nothing, and the cost of .308 ammo is nothing to you, then cool.

But if its not, and if this is going to be your main, shoot at every range trip, favorite to use, used enough that the finish starts to wear, go to rifle, then I would HIGHLY suggest buying something in 5.56/.223.

Yes, I know the difference in ballistic performance. Yes, I know many people THINK that the M1A/M14 platform is much more "reliable" than the M4/AR-15 platform (my first hand, combat experience with both would beg to differ).

But money is money. I know you said this rifle is for home protection/SHTF/blah blah blah, but if you are like me, the weapon that fills that slot, is my favorite, and gets shot a lot. I mean, A LOT. SHTF is not happening tomorrow, but I am going to the range tomorrow. I'm single, I have no major expenses, and I make decent money. But I would bankrupt myself shooting a .308 as much as I shoot my 5.56

my 2 cents

Couldn't agree more bellehood!

Originally Posted by 22many

While it is apparent that everybodys idea of a shtf is different it centers on the main purpose of protecting ones self
And family. If you are unclear of others peoples meanings of shtf then just do some reading on this forum and you will get a clue.

With that said, I would want to protect myself and family with as little violence as necessary. In the event that that cannot be avoided then Unfortunally my rifle comes out. All it would take is a couple shots from a "real" (that's right, i quoted it) rifle and the situation is gonna change. I would have no need for 7700 rounds in a 50 cal ammo can.


As far as stopping power, It is asnine to think that someone would use a 22 to shoot 300-400 yards out for the mater of protecting ones self. And if someone had too (I have no idea why) why would you choose a 22? As stated, there are other weapons out there to do a better job at that. Also, if someone is charging at you do you really think a 22 is going to stop them? Shot placement is everything but let's face it, a bigger caliber is going to do more damage. More damage = less threat. Hence, stopping power.

Yes, accuracy does fall off rather quickly with a 22. I choose 22 for cheap plinkering and im sure the majority of other people do also. With a 10/22 going for around $200 do you really thing people are buying it for 300-400 yard accuracy? No, its not designed for that. As far as my screen name, thank you for your concern about my reading and shooting. I
know my guns limits and my ammos limits. Don't agree with it? Fine. That's YOUR opinion.


Maybe you should start a thread about what people would choose for a shtf gun. Oh wait, he have a bunch of those and the majority are NOT 22s. Hate to burst your bubble.....

You missed most of my post but that is ok, it does not effect me. The very first thing I said is YOU need to decide YOUR SHTF situation and prepare for it the best YOU can. I dont care what other people think are SHTF, I am not in their situation, I am in mine. If I was to follow what I read from others I would have to pack a mini gun with a million rounds of ammo, not to mention a freight ship full of food, water, medical gear, gold, ect to fight off the ravishing hoards every second of the day in an urban environment. If that is how a person sees things going and they have the funds to do it I say go for it. I never put them down, it is their vision not mine. Nor did I put down your vision. You asked why I gave you a detailed answer, nothing more or less nor did I say I was right or you had to agree.

I never said a single gun was ideal but if based on what I see for SHTF IF I could only have one that is what I would choose and why.

My bubble is not burst I am fine not being the "majority". Your opinions are not going to change my choices. Just incase you are interested there are a lot of people that think the 10/22 has advantages, 10/22 for SHTF - Google Search

Originally Posted by 22many

Couldn't agree more bellehood!

thank you. I understand the want for a big 'ole mean battle rifle, a lot of dudes want one, and they have their advantages. But shooting a semi-auto .308 all day long is neither fun financially, or physically. You might hear the occasional soldier say that the 5.56 is "too small, too light, too weak" blah blah blah, but If i could only have ONE rifle, which realistically, in a combat, or SHTF situation, is what you will be limited to, i choose 5.56 all day long. So much easier to control, ammo is so much lighter, and I promise, it will meet the accuracy and range needs for everyone on this board, no one is shooting past 400-500 yards in a SHTF anyway, if you're smart you are hiding in your cave, or house, waiting it out.

If you can afford to have a $1,000+ rifle chambered in .308, that meets your specific need, awesome, I won't stop anyone. But if you are going to have one rifle TO RULE THEM ALL (sorry, i had to haha), I would strongly promote something in 5.56.

stay frosty yo