Thread: Procedural/etiquette situation

Classified ad shows a gun I have some interest in, and I view it to find the OP is offering a used gun for an amount significantly higher than it can be bought new. (Regular selling price: not a severe sale discount).

I politely offer the information in a post on that thread (primarily to all, but also to the OP, in case he was not aware, in order that he might price the gun more reasonably for a quick sale). I ask that no offense be taken.

I receive a very respectful PM from the OP advising me that he has this information, but the nearest location for him to obtain that price is a 90 minute drive, and he asks that I edit my post.

I reply with a sincere apology, and explanation, and agree to edit my post based on his concerns.

I bring up the ad again, and my post is gone.

1) I consider this website to be above all, an exchange of information. If I have information of benefit to many, including the OP (and sometimes not of benefit to some), I am inclined to offer it. I understand now that the OP was offended by my directness.

2) The removal of my post before I could edit it deprived me of an opportunity for a public apology for what was received as offensive (even if it was not intended as such).

The classified ads are private people selling private property. They can advertise their Mini-14 for $900 if they like.

If you feel compelled to let them know their price is too high, you must do it in a PM.

Never post in a classified ad unless you are wanting to purchase the item.

I will take that under advisement, and thank you. I will look for sweeping deletions of other replies in the classifieds that comment/compliment/provide helpful information about a particular item with no expressed interest in purchase.

It is is good rule if enforced equally, and I stand corrected.

Originally Posted by coctailer

The classified ads are private people selling private property.

Never post in a classified ad unless you are wanting to purchase the item.

Does this include a ban on positive comments and testimonials to the quality of the item?.............................elsullo

Originally Posted by elsullo

Does this include a ban on positive comments and testimonials to the quality of the item?.............................elsullo

Indeed it does, though we give no penalties in most cases for this it is still against the rules as it has nothing to do with buying or selling the item, typically we just delete these posts.

Example of what would be deleted:

"Sweet gun."
"I used to have one of those."

Example of what would not be deleted:

"You listed this gun as model x when in fact it is model z"

Here is a post that could go either way.

Post 4: If he just said "this is a steal" we would likely delete the post when someone reported it. Since he added some sincere relevance it we would likely leave it as is, if a lengthy discussion broke out about "I believe to make these ambi you can just get the safety/decock removal kit[s]" which it most likely will, those posts would be deleted.


http://www.northwestfirearms.com/han...-six-mags.html

Originally Posted by elsullo

Does this include a ban on positive comments and testimonials to the quality of the item?.............................elsullo

Yaaaaaaaaaaa, kinda.

Like Trlsmn said most of the bumping type posts will get deleted.
I never minded the chit-chat in the classifieds, but it did get out of hand in the past.

I have a hard time being strict on the "cool gun, I had one and loved it" posts. I think it makes the site more friendly and social if they are allowed, but as I said, it was waaaaay out of control before.
There were even people making troll accounts just to post this kind of discussion.

Spitpatch's post did look like threadcraping, and I believe that he wasn't doing it to be a jerk. It was cool that he clarified his post with this thread.

The hard thing on internet forums is that the written word can be taken many ways by the readers.

It's good to discuss this stuff if only to explain why we enforce the rules the way we do.

Is it perfect? No.
Can it be improved? Maybe

It is really hard as a mod to enforce the rules and keep the site fun. Trust me, we get slammed by the members a lot for trying to keep the rules in force, and most of the members wanted them this way.
The guys that yell at us about them are usually the guys trying to (unfairly) keep their ad at the top.

The guys that are treated the most unfairly are the ones that adhere to the rules and their ads get blasted off the first page of the classifieds by the sharks.

There are also guys that just want to slam people's ads. I believe they do it because they are envious of the item, and bitter that they cannot have it for 1/2 of it's actual value...........or they are self-proclaimed experts on gun values and feel the need to let everyone know how smart they are.

That said, there are only a minute amount of guys on this forum that do it now. 99.999% of the members are honest and may make a mistake by not knowing the rules as they are written.

Again, the written word can be taken many ways. I hope my post didn't sound like a slam on anyone, or make our members sound like a bunch of jerks. That is not my intent.

I will offer another example (in which I instigated and participated in an exchange of useful information regarding the particular gun): In this case, an OP offered a gun that I was very familiar with. In my initial reply post, I offered very brief historical information about the gun, and expressed a desire to see the gun (no mention of intended purchase interest). I wanted to educate myself further about this model, and offer anything I had to the owner regarding its history and value. Certainly a purchase might have ensued, but I made NO entreaties to the OP about doing so.

Others chimed in with what they knew. I was learning, and the OP was learning. The difference between this post(s) and the one that was recently deleted, is that I speculated the gun very might be worth MORE than what the OP was asking. (Information that duplicates what occurred just recently: only difference is that my information went the opposite direction). Those posts were NOT deleted.

As a result of the information I directly and honestly offered (and supporting information from others) the OP elected to remove the gun from the block in order that he might research its value further. I received PM's from other Members advising me that my posts had been extremely helpful to them as well.

This thread went to moderate length, no one offered any interest in a purchase, and no deletions occurred. I can't expect the "Line Riders" to be omnipresent, but this and other examples readily available show that the rule is not universally applied. It also shows how Members can benefit from a thread in the Classifieds where Members offer helpful information about the item. (Positive or negative). In yet still another example, I offered helpful information about a gun that was BOTH positive and negative. Again, no deletion occurred.

I will police myself. I made a mistake, apologized for it privately, was deprived of correcting it myself and apologizing publicly. Something that could have also benefited all. Again: I believe it is a good rule if applied as equally as it can be. I would WANT both positive and negative information about anything I offered for sale, (and the negative would probably be more useful to me). I understand that some may not value such. I will discontinue those offerings, ask that others do so as well, while asking that the respected Moderators will do the best they can to apply the rule wherever they can.

Originally Posted by Spitpatch

I will offer another example (in which I instigated and participated in an exchange of useful information regarding the particular gun): In this case, an OP offered a gun that I was very familiar with. In my initial reply post, I offered very brief historical information about the gun, and expressed a desire to see the gun (no mention of intended purchase interest). I wanted to educate myself further about this model, and offer anything I had to the owner regarding its history and value. Certainly a purchase might have ensued, but I made NO entreaties to the OP about doing so.

Others chimed in with what they knew. I was learning, and the OP was learning. The difference between this post(s) and the one that was recently deleted, is that I speculated the gun very might be worth MORE than what the OP was asking. (Information that duplicates what occurred just recently: only difference is that my information went the opposite direction). Those posts were NOT deleted.

As a result of the information I directly and honestly offered (and supporting information from others) the OP elected to remove the gun from the block in order that he might research its value further. I received PM's from other Members advising me that my posts had been extremely helpful to them as well.

This thread went to moderate length, no one offered any interest in a purchase, and no deletions occurred. I can't expect the "Line Riders" to be omnipresent, but this and other examples readily available show that the rule is not universally applied. It also shows how Members can benefit from a thread in the Classifieds where Members offer helpful information about the item. (Positive or negative). In yet still another example, I offered helpful information about a gun that was BOTH positive and negative. Again, no deletion occurred.

I will police myself. I made a mistake, apologized for it privately, was deprived of correcting it myself and apologizing publicly. Something that could have also benefited all. Again: I believe it is a good rule if applied as equally as it can be. I would WANT both positive and negative information about anything I offered for sale, (and the negative would probably be more useful to me). I understand that some may not value such. I will discontinue those offerings, ask that others do so as well, while asking that the respected Moderators will do the best they can to apply the rule wherever they can.

As to the point about being equally applied that is because we really can't look at every ad, ads that are reported are examined to see if they are indeed violating one of the rules, if they are then we will take action. We will also randomly look thorough the ads when we have the time but it is impossible to read every post.

What you must consider is the volume of interaction we as mods have to deal with daily, it is not always possible to deal with every occurrence on an individual and personal basis on things like cleaning up a thread, if you think about it if there are say 6 posts in a thread that do not meet the criteria as being buying or selling, posted by 4 different people and we had to individually contact each participant and explain why their post was deleted and had an exchange of say 5 PM's back and forth which is about average the PM volume and time required to deal with this becomes exponential, now take that time and times it by say 10 such threads per day and we will be doing nothing but dealing with this all day and night.

The simplest answer is that discussions are for the discussion area and selling is for the classified section.

Originally Posted by Trlsmn

As to the point about being equally applied that is because we really can't look at every ad, ads that are reported are examined to see if they are indeed violating one of the rules.

Hmm. If a moderator such as yourself has selflessly contributed 8116 posts in 26 months, that's 312 posts per month, or more than 10 per day for over two years. Many of those involve your valuable participation in political debates. Are you saying you don't also have time to engage in moderating ads? Maybe I don't understand the Mod role (which is likely). I'm not being critical; I'm just wondering about the statement "we really can't look at every ad" given the time you generously put in on other issues, day by day, month by month, for years. It might be a resource-allocation issue, but that's not a call for me to make.

Originally Posted by CEF1959

Hmm. If a moderator such as yourself has selflessly contributed 8116 posts in 26 months, that's 312 posts per month, or more than 10 per day for over two years. Many of those involve your valuable participation in political debates. Are you saying you don't also have time to engage in moderating ads? Maybe I don't understand the Mod role (which is likely). I'm not being critical; I'm just wondering about the statement "we really can't look at every ad" given the time you generously put in on other issues, day by day, month by month, for years. It might be a resource-allocation issue, but that's not a call for me to make.

Have you ever tried to read every post?

Originally Posted by CEF1959

Hmm. If a moderator such as yourself has selflessly contributed 8116 posts in 26 months, that's 312 posts per month, or more than 10 per day for over two years. Many of those involve your valuable participation in political debates. Are you saying you don't also have time to engage in moderating ads? Maybe I don't understand the Mod role (which is likely). I'm not being critical; I'm just wondering about the statement "we really can't look at every ad" given the time you generously put in on other issues, day by day, month by month, for years. It might be a resource-allocation issue, but that's not a call for me to make.

Even though I, as most people will know yours is just a troll post CEF, I will say that, Indeed, I don't have the time to be all things to all people and what time I do have I use as I see fit to help NWFA and even sometimes participate in the forum myself. I do indeed "donate" a vast amount of time to making NWFA a better place to all at no charge to you the end user, is this the reaction you were seeking CEF?

Oh and BTW "Mod posts, infractions, warnings, etc.. which no one but the Mods and Admins can see go towards my final post score so that kind of reaffirms the selfless donation of my time given to helping NWFA.

BTW it would have been easier to say "thanks for your time" instead of casting me in the bad light that you intended with that troll post.

I know I had a bad habit of crapping in the classified ads some years ago, I suppose it isn't really polite to do so. I finally quit, as if the guy's price is too high, his ad will eventually go away, due to no interest in his priced too high merchandise.

Originally Posted by billdeserthills

I know I had a bad habit of crapping in the classified ads some years ago, I suppose it isn't really polite to do so. I finally quit, as if the guy's price is too high, his ad will eventually go away, due to no interest in his priced too high merchandise.

That's the way I look at it personally, if the item is too high the market will speak to the seller.

If you'd taken the time to play moderator rather than post this self-justificatory crap, you'd have... well... more time to be the moderator you claim you don't have time to do.

Originally Posted by coctailer

Have you ever tried to read every post?

Nope, but I'm not a Moderator posting more than 10 times per day, month after month, year after year, then claiming an insufficient time to engage in monitoring.

Originally Posted by CEF1959

If you'd taken the time to play moderator rather than post this self-justificatory crap, you'd have... well... more time to be the moderator you claim you don't have time to do.

Originally Posted by CEF1959

Nope, but I'm not a Moderator posting more than 10 times per day, month after month, year after year, then claiming an insufficient time to engage in monitoring.

Nothing to see here folks move along.

[QUOTE=coctailer;373735]
The guys that are treated the most unfairly are the ones that adhere to the rules and their ads get blasted off the first page of the classifieds by the sharks.

There are also guys that just want to slam people's ads. I believe they do it because they are envious of the item, and bitter that they cannot have it for 1/2 of it's actual value...........or they are self-proclaimed experts on gun values and feel the need to let everyone know how smart they are.
QUOTE]

Just how true that statement is. I love all the so called MOFO's that have to lowball or be a smart arse in public. That statement says a thousand words.

Good job coctailer

For what it is worth, I am grateful for all of the work of the Moderators and the labor it takes! I visit every day and still cannot possibly read all of the posts, so I value the work of those who even TRY to. This messageboard is very precious because IT IS so well-moderated, and we all owe a thankyou to these unsung heroes who keep it going! Oh, yeah, and that Joey somebody who somehow set it up so well............................elsullo

[I]I can't expect the "Line Riders" to be omnipresent, ...while asking that the respected Moderators will do the best they can to apply the rule wherever they can. [/I]

I post these again, as apparently they were overlooked as indicated by response. I will add a note of appreciation to any effort by any Moderator.

The intent of this thread was constructive. I regret that subsequent posts by others may not have been so.

Originally Posted by Spitpatch

[I]I can't expect the "Line Riders" to be omnipresent, ...while asking that the respected Moderators will do the best they can to apply the rule wherever they can. [/I]

I post these again, as apparently they were overlooked as indicated by response. I will add a note of appreciation to any effort by any Moderator.

The intent of this thread was constructive. I regret that subsequent posts by others may not have been so.

Thanks Spitpatch, I enjoy this kind of thread as it makes NWFA more transparent to what happens and why. Unfortunately the haters will always use these kind of posts to jump on to sew seeds of discontent so it's nice to see that people can wade through that crap and still find some clarity.