Thread: Getting Out Of Dodge Realities

Originally Posted by MissJ

I know I may be taking it too far-ovethinking it a bit....but another layer of complexity that could be easily fixed: WATER

What if you have to cross water and the bridges are not safe, or traffic is at a standstill? If the conditions are safe enough (like people will not try to shoot you....lets say a BIG earthquake just happened and a river separates your from your family) you can just SWIM...this is not possible with a dirtbike, mountain bike etc.

Keep a big trash bag or two in your GHB (cheap, lightweight, compact, million uses). Strip down to your undies, put your clothes and shoes inside, possibly your bag too, if it fits and won't drown you, and SWIM. You will need to be adept at swimming....and swimming with ANY kind of a load is very difficult. If time permits and you have some cordage and a knife you can make an improvised floatation device for your gear out of sticks and paracord. (Think mini Huck Finn raft that holds your bag).

I've actually done this before when playing around at the river. It took some time (like an hour) and wasn't very pretty or comfy but it DID float me with no gear. I couldn't steer it very well. I think a better option would be to make a float for your bag and then you just hold onto it while swimming across. If you get into trouble, you can ditch the bag and use the float to keep you from drowning.

Excellent point, But I may suggest using trash compactor bags, you can usually find them at costco, samsclub and walmart, if not available your do a net search. I line the inside of my backpack, GHB and other things with them, they are a lot thicker and I have found them to be completely water proof for long periods of exposure tot he elements

When it comes to floating your gear across a body of water there are a few options... if it's a "minor" river (something smaller than the columbia) don't swim with your gear... tie off to it, swim across and then haul it over with a cord...

So one of the things I've picked up from years of canyoning... pack all of your stuff in little waterproof stuff bags, this is good for 2 reasons: first, it makes it easier to sort through and find what you're looking for. Second, all of those little bags are waterproof... so if it rains heavily all your dry socks don't get soaked. And since the whole package is a series of watertight compartments... guess what? it's a boat!

Having a backpack that floats is an absolute necessity any time there is water involved. Also, if you need more buyancy you can also empty water bladders and inflate them with air.

This article could be more concise (ie., the author rambles on):
Bracken: When The Music Stops – How America’s Cities May Explode In Violence | Western Rifle Shooters Association

The article does highlight a few interesting considerations relative to this discussion/thread, in that it doesn't take much to foul up a few major intersections. His reference to the LA riots of the early 1990's resonated with me.

Peter

Originally Posted by ATCclears

This article could be more concise (ie., the author rambles on):
Bracken: When The Music Stops – How America’s Cities May Explode In Violence | Western Rifle Shooters Association

The article does highlight a few interesting considerations relative to this discussion/thread, in that it doesn't take much to foul up a few major intersections. His reference to the LA riots of the early 1990's resonated with me.

Peter

Great article - worth the read.
Whether bugging-out or bugging-back, at some point you'll probably be on foot. Then you must decide what is important to carry with you and how much weight can you realistically pack.
During normal times, like in my O.P., first responders cleared out the jams, but during a major event they won't be able to. They will be blocked themselves or dealing with bigger issues.

Bugging out seems like a lot of work and logistical problems. Bugging in has always made more sense, as explained in many threads here.

Tell you what: When you bug out, can you give me your house keys? I'd like to bug in somewhere with nicer furniture than I have. If you could leave some Beef-a-Roni in the cupboard, that'd be great. We could negotiate about the women folk, but I have to tell you, I'm partial to Mrs. Alpha. Otherwise I can bring my own supplies over to your house. I'll even feed the cat. But where would I forward the mail?

ATC, thanks for the link.

It's the reason I LOVE the internet.

Originally Posted by ATCclears

This article could be more concise (ie., the author rambles on):
Bracken: When The Music Stops – How America’s Cities May Explode In Violence | Western Rifle Shooters Association

The article does highlight a few interesting considerations relative to this discussion/thread, in that it doesn't take much to foul up a few major intersections. His reference to the LA riots of the early 1990's resonated with me.

Peter

Wow, that is some of the most extreme survivalist fan-fic I've read since the turner diaries. Both of which are just grounded enough in an alternate reality to make it seem plausible. But the similarities end there. Vigilantes showing up to conduct "sniper missions" against rioters? How about store owners defending their property?

The fact of the matter is, in any civil disturbance situation, there will always be many factions but they can be broken down into three categories, there will be the ones intent on violence, the ones intent on looting, and the ones intent on stopping them. Trying to break this whole thing down by race is foolish, because there are plenty of minorities who own stores and have the will and the means to defend their livelihoods.

And the comparisons to lebanon, and yugoslavia? In both cases the countries broke apart, and much of the killing was done by left-over military factions not gangs, or would-be militias, these people had tanks, heavy artillery, mortars and metric tons of small arms. Sarijevo was on the receiving end of weeks of heavy artillery bombardment, in addition to snipers sent to terrorize the population.

The fact of the matter is that whenever you are in a strictly small-arms combat, fatalities are generally low, and when you have an urban population that is largely disarmed, or is very under-armed when compared to heavily armed suburban or rural population incursions by said urban population to spread mayhem and violence will not be a continuing problem, especially since many suburban cities have their own police department who will play whack-a-mole with a PR-24 and have significant resources compared to urban police.

In this case, I'm going to give it to Cooper: "The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

As long as there are more good people than bad people, there will be a very limited lifespan of any civil disturbance.

Wow. I love that Cooper quote! I'm going to have to write that down.

However, it's more of a gray situation than a good guys / bad guys scenario.

When faced with starvation even good people will do whatever it takes, and this will sometimes put them against other good people.

I don't think it's a matter of race (although history shows that people will use chaos and anarchy to settle old scores.)

In the above scenarios it's violence, anger, hopelessness, badness and survival that will try the hearts of good men and women.

Those that are able to maintain the moral high ground and live life even remotely similar to pre-downfall will be the vast minority.

Get away from the masses and prepare as well as you can. That's your best chance at being among them.

I think you hit on the major point here... it's a "gray" situation. The way I look at it, the day inner cities start having trouble feeding themselves will be the same day the rest of us start having problems feeding ourselves. As it turns out, when it comes to putting food in the stomach, we are all vile, aggressive, self-interested monsters. This fact transcends all racial, ethnic and gender lines.

A major difference between the US and every other country in the world is that we have never had a peasant class. Our current welfare state is as close as we have ever gotten to having one, but it represents a very small fraction of the population. Except for maybe in the south, where there are people who are still upset at Tecumseh Sherman for burning down great great grandpappy's barn we don't have multi-generational tensions. Yea, there are some racial tensions, but those are more indicative of present day resource conflicts, not the seeds of genocide you see in eastern europe or the middle east.

Originally Posted by MissJ

I agree the best plan is to be able to get home on foot. Then, if other things work out great! But you've always got your feet!

My GHB contains (among other things) comfy shoes, socks and a change of clothes into dark, comfortable clothes. I just put some old ratty dark blue jeans, a black t-shirt and a black hooded sweatshirt. Didn't cost me anything. The bag itself is mossy-oak camo which may or may not be good, but I didn't want to buy a different bag. If you were trying to move stealthily at night for instance you could use engine grease to help camoflauge your face, hands and shoes if they are white. For most scenarios you'll just be trying to get home, and so escape and evade tactics will not be necessary as most of the panicked people will ALSO just be trying to get home.....but if you do just a little extra planning it is not too hard to make your GHB double as an E&E bag and doesn't have to cost you very much $$.

Wouldn't worry too much about the cammo backpack. They are pretty much everywhere.