Thread: FAL or AR

7.62x51 or .308 leave behind the mouse gun and ammo. Shorty folder in an M1A (yes I know the OP stated FAL). Carry different choices for ammo, 130 gr flat point core bonded, we are not playing by Geneva Convention here, light bullets used for close quarter combat, AP for those other situations, FMJ for general use.
Things that make you go HMMMM, what would be considered cover with 5.56 is concealment to 7.62x51. There are lighter shorter packages available in 7.62 than what was available in 1962. Here is a video showing why I believe this:
U.S. Marines Ammo penetration tests - YouTube
The OP's question was around 5.56 vs 7.62 and FAL vs AR I have thrown in M1A. Another point, the AR platform has had a history of jambing, in 3 gun competition they jamb, in combat they jamb, the M1A platform is far more reliable (my opinion) easier to maintain, and throws a far better projectile.
The pissing match about tactics is A. not on point B. opinion based C. worthless to this discussion D. will vary depending on what happens.
For those who can or will do a search on AR15 M16 failures. the first failures were due to improper cleaning, even though the weapon platform was designed to not need cleaning (yes I know about the powder problem), all failures in the field even today are blamed on the Operator not cleaning the weapon. If you have a jamb at the range you pack up go home and fix it, if you have a jamb in a real world death match you die. I can field strip and clear a M1A far eaiser than an AR, I have had jambs with the AR platform that required time and tools not available in the field.
Try this:
Corn, beans, spent brass, an empty page and a deadline (c) 2008 to 2012: M-4 (M-16) FAILURES AGAIN LET YOUNG MEN DIE...
Yes it is discussed that the failure was caused by overheating, M1A's don't have that problem.
Read this and find the failure rate, dirt and sand, over 19% failure rates in field and 20% of those could not be fixed in the field:
The USA’s M4 Carbine Controversy
My point is, the OP asked about AR vs FAL, for those who love the AR go for it. I choose 7.62x51 FAL or M1A. Vary your ammo for the situation.
The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery isn't Ignorance, It's the Illusion of Knowledge.
I could go on and on and on, for those who want to research the weapons platform, ammo choice and accessories, there are many sources available to you.
M1A platform, 16 1/4 in barrel, custom muzzle brake, weighs in at 8 1/4 lbs loaded, fires sub ammo clear up to full power. Carry a pistol for really close situations (now for the real pissing match) 1911 45, still the best, second choice Glock 22.
To attack ones character as an offensive tactic, instead of discussing the merits and points of the topic shows the lack of knowledge on the subject and the Illusion one lives under.

Jim

Originally Posted by jake2far

7.62x51 or .308 leave behind the mouse gun and ammo. Shorty folder in an M1A (yes I know the OP stated FAL). Carry different choices for ammo, 130 gr flat point core bonded, we are not playing by Geneva Convention here, light bullets used for close quarter combat, AP for those other situations, FMJ for general use.
Things that make you go HMMMM, what would be considered cover with 5.56 is concealment to 7.62x51. There are lighter shorter packages available in 7.62 than what was available in 1962. Here is a video showing why I believe this:
U.S. Marines Ammo penetration tests - YouTube
The OP's question was around 5.56 vs 7.62 and FAL vs AR I have thrown in M1A. Another point, the AR platform has had a history of jambing, in 3 gun competition they jamb, in combat they jamb, the M1A platform is far more reliable (my opinion) easier to maintain, and throws a far better projectile.
The pissing match about tactics is A. not on point B. opinion based C. worthless to this discussion D. will vary depending on what happens.
For those who can or will do a search on AR15 M16 failures. the first failures were due to improper cleaning, even though the weapon platform was designed to not need cleaning (yes I know about the powder problem), all failures in the field even today are blamed on the Operator not cleaning the weapon. If you have a jamb at the range you pack up go home and fix it, if you have a jamb in a real world death match you die. I can field strip and clear a M1A far eaiser than an AR, I have had jambs with the AR platform that required time and tools not available in the field.
Try this:
Corn, beans, spent brass, an empty page and a deadline (c) 2008 to 2012: M-4 (M-16) FAILURES AGAIN LET YOUNG MEN DIE...
Yes it is discussed that the failure was caused by overheating, M1A's don't have that problem.
Read this and find the failure rate, dirt and sand, over 19% failure rates in field and 20% of those could not be fixed in the field:
The USA’s M4 Carbine Controversy
My point is, the OP asked about AR vs FAL, for those who love the AR go for it. I choose 7.62x51 FAL or M1A. Vary your ammo for the situation.
The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery isn't Ignorance, It's the Illusion of Knowledge.
I could go on and on and on, for those who want to research the weapons platform, ammo choice and accessories, there are many sources available to you.
M1A platform, 16 1/4 in barrel, custom muzzle brake, weighs in at 8 1/4 lbs loaded, fires sub ammo clear up to full power. Carry a pistol for really close situations (now for the real pissing match) 1911 45, still the best, second choice Glock 22.
To attack ones character as an offensive tactic, instead of discussing the merits and points of the topic shows the lack of knowledge on the subject and the Illusion one lives under.

Jim

+1 for the 1911 45

Now where is the guy with the statistics showing that not enough of the boys can qualify with the M1?

The gun is only good if you can hit the target.Or if it works when it does hit the target.
When I lived in Tacoma,I would here all kinds of stuff about the M4s and 5.56s.Never heard anyone say it was good.

We can use any load we want in our guns,too bad the guys on the front line can't.

And thanks for that penetration test video.Fun to watch.

Originally Posted by mjbskwim

And thanks for that penetration test video.Fun to watch.

If you like that video, try this one:
Armalite AR-10 Promo Movie, pt. 2 - YouTube

See what the advertisement was at this point in developement, watch around 1:40 minutes in, it displays the real problem with this system.
This one was in 7.62x51, they brought the problem with them when they went to 5.56.
This weapon system has killed more friendly troops through failure than any other weapon system the US Military has fielded. If the failure rate of the M1 was the same as the M16 during the War someone would have been arrested and put in jail. The problems with the 16 have been known since the beginning, the developers (Sullivan) came out and said this weapon system was a mistake, he stated his son was in theater and should have an AK47, this is from one of the founders of the design, read up and find out how many times it has failed.
One final thought, people say the M14 does not make a good CQB rifle, I guess someone forgot to tell Shugart his weapon of choice was a poor one, he could pick any weapon he wanted, when he chose to put himself in harms way he went with an M14. Close quarter combat doesn't even begin to discribe what he was in. He shot until he ran out of ammo, than switched to his, wait for it, 45acp. So one of if not the baddest combat soldiers around picked an M14 and a 45 acp, if they were good enough for him, well?
Oh yea, he won the Medal of Honor. Words fail me, thats all I got to say.

Jim

Final comment, than I am done.
Read this, get to page 12, 13, and 14, the failure rate was above 85%, real people died because their weapons malfunctioned, jambed, or failed. Think about this over 85% failure. Don't believe me research it yourself. This problem has been going on for over 40 years, how many have to die before someone asks the simple question, WHY are we using this POS? Both caliber and platform are a failure, Marines are now trained to shot more than 1 round at their targets, in the "old" days it was one shot one kill, now they want 3 hits in the kill zone, WHY?
http://www.why-war.com/files/article07102003a.pdf

Jim

they'll be a lot more 5.56 laying around than 7.62x51.

Think National Guard, Sheriff Office, Police Station armories. Abandoned posts, military bases, etc. Plus most stores stock more .223/5.56 than 7.62/.308

For example in the event of a viral outbreak/superflu, people are going to die QUICK and chances are you'll be able to find what you need.

I can't believe I haven't unsubscribed this thread yet...

FIXED

Saiga .308 all the way.

Well, I got's here a nice Springfield Armory M1A, and an AR-15 might be making it's way into the family soon. I reckon that both guns would be good to have around now?