Thread: Silver History

Originally Posted by Just Jim

"People are broke. They lost most of their wealth in the real estate crash, and banks followed suit with bubble based derivatives and are broke. How can they buy PM's or real estate or other commodities?"

So will silver and gold go up or down? If people are allready broke and they print bigtime then people will need things other than silver and gold. At any rate they can print all they want but people will still run out of money

Give you two articles(short) to read and it says what is happening right now, not two years from now.


Look Out - Japan is a Powder Keg

Japan has alot of our debt

Gold: This is What an Ex-Momentum Trade Looks Like

The manipulation of PMs continue, read some of the replys

Thanks for worrying about my health LOL

jj

JJ, You're still reading only the doomsayers. Why is the value of the Japanese Yen up so much if the "smart" money worldwide agrees with that writer? The dollar is strong, but the Yen is better.

I don't disagree that there is a day of reckoning coming. That is, unless we get leadership that puts a total stop to our nonsense. Even then, we are in so deep that we would be 50 years digging ourselves out. Unfunded SS and medicare are a much bigger threat than our so-called national debt as boomers retire and the younger, smaller and lesser earning generations try to pay for it.

The point I'm trying to make isn't that the whole world is in trouble. It is.

The point I'm trying to make is that the whole world - nations, banks, individuals, are in deep financial trouble and they need - I mean need - cash. People from homeowners to banks to nations are trying to sell to raise cash. Some are going broke and more will. In the US many are still upside down in their homes. Those who aren't upside down can't sell to move and find a job. The whole world is awash in debt.

As long as there is this desperate worldwide need for cash, commodities will not be the investment of choice. You have to have excess money to invest in commodities and to drive prices up. Commodities are being sold in massive amounts to raise cash.

"JJ, You are reading only the bad news, and I think thriving on it. It could make you sick, literally."

I wonder why people make these kinds of statements?

News is news, and by keeping informed it has helped me to not make mistakes and has helped me to make money the uninformed can't. I get ill not knowing what is going on. It may make others uncomfortable to be informed but the uncomfort headed their way is because they won't pay attention. People only learn when they get their head outa their butts and pay attention.

I guess if I thrive when the sun shines in then to me it's a good thing. To show you I am not wrapped up in just bad news let me point out that 2011 is the year of the dead dictator. More big dictators have reached room temperature in 2011 than any other year in my lifetime. Good news indeed.

"The whole world is awash in debt."

Not everyone, I have no debt other than minor living exspenses because I could see this all comming and worked to be debt free. I would have never been in this good a shape if I had my head up my butt and didn't pay attention. Debt is for slaves, I am more free than most.

Does that make me better than anyone else? No am just an average man but my head ain't up..

Preparedness means you must be informed even if it's bad news.

jj

Originally Posted by Just Jim

"The whole world is awash in debt."

Not everyone, I have no debt other than minor living exspenses because I could see this all comming and worked to be debt free. I would have never been in this good a shape if I had my head up my butt and didn't pay attention. Debt is for slaves, I am more free than most.

Does that make me better than anyone else? No am just an average man but my head ain't up..

Preparedness means you must be informed even if it's bad news.

jj

JJ, It has ALWAYS been smart to be debt free, even in the best of times. Debt is slavery. Paying interest is foolhardy. Our grandparents knew that.

Visa/Mastercard came out in the late 60's. Car loan terms went from 1 year to 3 years to 5 years to - what are they now? 7 years? I haven't had a car loan for decades so I don't know. This has all been an attempt to get the consumer into debt slavery, and paying interest to the lenders.

Home loans went from 3 years to 5 years to 30 years with some having been 40 years. Variable rate mtg's came in. Another way to put the sheeple into interest slavery.

Those longer terms also allowed prices to rise on cars and homes. Prices can't rise above what people can afford as a monthly payment. If there was no such thing as a home loan and everyone had to pay cash, what would the value of homes be in real dollars? The result of easy loans pizzes people like me off because it drives up prices. How much could Ford get for a new F 150 4x4 pickup if the only way to buy it was with cash?

Yes, the whole world, meaning the average consumer, nations and banks are awash in debt. European nations are scrambling to issue bonds to pay their debts. Some of their bond issues failed last month. Even one of Germany's failed because, I think, people don't want a long term investment in Euros. The bond issues which succeed have crushing interest rates. Who would loan money to one of the PIIGS without a high reward for the risk? The risk is that they might default, and also that the value of the Euro might drop more than the interest collected.

"JJ, You're still reading only the doomsayers. Why is the value of the Japanese Yen up so much if the "smart" money worldwide agrees with that writer?"

LOL wasn't it the "smart money" that got us all into this? Smart money has been screwing the consumer forever, one bubble to the next. Is silver and gold a bubble? It was in the 80s and good people lost hard earned money to "smart people". I go through life with good people and hope they never become"smart".

jj

Originally Posted by Just Jim

"JJ, You're still reading only the doomsayers. Why is the value of the Japanese Yen up so much if the "smart" money worldwide agrees with that writer?"

LOL wasn't it the "smart money" that got us all into this? Smart money has been screwing the consumer forever, one bubble to the next. Is silver and gold a bubble? It was in the 80s and good people lost hard earned money to "smart people". I go through life with good people and hope they never become"smart".

jj

JJ, I go through life debt free, and prepared for the worst if that's possible. I certainly have defense, and food and a great water source. I chose my home and home site for survival. Beyond defense and survival preps, I diversify my investments because you're right, I can't know the future.

I just don't believe that a total SHTF is imminent because governments still have bullets in their arsenals to keep this ponzi scheme afloat for a while and that might mean years. I also don't believe governments want to lose power and putting us into a total SHTF would cost them their power.

I'm more concerned about the slow loss of freedom and constitutional rights we see which give the government more power.

Whichever way things go, I know I can't control it so I just try to be "ready for anything" if that's even possible.

Hey JJ, I keep saying that I never planned to live forever.

Originally Posted by Gunner3456

When you roll debt you don't create new debt. It's not a lot different from refinancing a home for the same amount, but in the case of a homeowner it would probably be for a lower interest rate. In any event he isn't increasing debt.

Our debt is increasing because of budget deficits, which we need to stop IMHO.

I dont know if you've heard but....

America Maxes Out Its Credit Card Again - Treasury To Raise Debt Limit By Another $1.2 Trillion On December 30 | ZeroHedge

Originally Posted by djthemac

I dont know if you've heard but....

America Maxes Out Its Credit Card Again - Treasury To Raise Debt Limit By Another $1.2 Trillion On December 30 | ZeroHedge

That isn't rolling over existing debt by issuing new bonds (borrowing) to pay off existing bonds (debt.) That's a wash except for the interest paid, which today is at historical lows.

Your reference is to new, increased debt which is a different animal.

It's been fun guys. I'm unsubscribing, not because it isn't all good, but because I have other things I need to do, LOL.

The best to everyone.

This Got PRINTED? ("There Will Be Violence") in [Market-Ticker]

Be it gold, silver or paper just follow the money guys and you will see it all comming.

jj

If you add up all forms of debt in the United States (government, business and consumer), it comes to more than 56 trillion dollars. That is more than $683,000 per family. Unfortunately, the average amount of savings per family in the U.S. is only about $4,735.

In summary, we are screwed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=Li0no7O9zmE#!

Before It's News

Max Keiser - 5 minutes...

Max Keizer is one of the best, although with Gerald Celente and Peter Schiff. All three are aware that the dollar and our economy is doomed. Their information is often found on the Economic Collapse Blog; a great source of info.

We have all been lied to. For decades, the leaders of both major political parties have promised us that they can fix our current system and that they can get our national debt under control.
As the 2012 election approaches, they are making all kinds of wild promises once again. Well you know what? It is all a giant sham. The United States has gotten into so much debt that there will be no coming back from this. The current system is irretrievably broken. 30 years ago the U.S. debt was a horrific crisis that was completely and totally out of control. If we would have dealt with it back then maybe we could have done something about it.
But now it is 15 times larger, and we are adding more than a trillion dollars to the debt every single year. The facts that you are about to read below should set America on fire with anger. Please share them with as many people as you can. What we are doing to our children and our grandchildren is absolutely nightmarish. Words like "abuse", "financial rape", "theft" and "crime" do not even begin to describe what we are doing to future generations. We were the wealthiest nation on earth, but it wasn't good enough just to squander all of our own money. We had to squander the money of our children and our grandchildren as well.
America has been so selfish and so self-centered that it is hard to argue that we don't deserve what is about to happen to this country.
We have stolen the future of America, and yet we strut around as if we are the smartest generation that ever walked the face of the earth.
All of this prosperity that we see all around us is just an illusion. It is a false prosperity that has been purchased by the biggest mountain of debt in the history of the world.
Did you know that if you added up all forms of debt in the United States and divided it up equally that every single family in the country would owe more than $683,000?
We are a nation that is absolutely addicted to debt, and the U.S. debt crisis threatens to destroy everything that our forefathers built.
Yes, everything may seem fine for the moment, but what do you think would happen if the federal government suddenly adopted a balanced budget?
1.3 trillion dollars a year would be sucked right out of the economy and we would be looking at an "economic readjustment" that would be mind blowing.
Enjoy this false prosperity while you can, because it is not going to last.
Debt is a very cruel master, and our day of reckoning is almost here.
The following are 34 shocking facts about U.S. debt that should set America on fire with anger....
#1 During fiscal year 2011, the U.S. government spent 3.7 trillion dollars but it only brought in 2.4 trillion dollars.
#2 When Ronald Reagan took office, the U.S. national debt was less than 1 trillion dollars. Today, the U.S. national debt is over 15.2 trillion dollars.
#3 During 2011, U.S. debt surpassed 100 percent of GDP for the first time ever.
#4 According to Wikipedia, the monetary base "consists of coins, paper money (both as bank vault cash and as currency circulating in the public), and commercial banks' reserves with the central bank." Currently the U.S. monetary base is sitting somewhere around 2.7 trillion dollars. So if you went out and gathered all of that money up it would only make a small dent in our national debt. But afterwards there would be no currency for anyone to use.
#5 The U.S. government spent over 454 billion dollars just on interest on the national debt during fiscal 2011.
#6 The U.S. government has total assets of 2.7 trillion dollars and has total liabilities of 17.5 trillion dollars. The liabilities do not even count 4.7 trillion dollars of intragovernmental debt that is currently outstanding.
#7 During the Obama administration, the U.S. government has accumulated more debt than it did from the time that George Washington took office to the time that Bill Clinton took office.
#8 It is being projected that the U.S. national debt will surpass 23 trillion dollars in 2015.
#9 According to the GAO, the U.S. government is facing 34 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities for social insurance programs such as Social Security and Medicare. These are obligations that we have already committed ourselves to but that we do not have any money for.
#10 Others estimate that the unfunded liabilities of the U.S. government now total over 117 trillion dollars.
#11 According to the GAO, the ratio of debt held by the public to GDP is projected to reach 287 percent of GDP by 2086.
#12 Others are much less optimistic. A recently revised IMF policy paper entitled “An Analysis of U.S. Fiscal and Generational Imbalances: Who Will Pay and How?” projects that U.S. government debt will rise to about 400 percent of GDP by the year 2050.
#13 The United States government is responsible for more than a third of all the government debt in the entire world.
#14 If you divide up the national debt equally among all U.S. taxpayers, each taxpayer would owe approximately $134,685.
#15 Mandatory federal spending surpassed total federal revenue for the first time ever in fiscal 2011. That was not supposed to happen until 50 years from now.
#16 Between 2007 and 2010, U.S. GDP grew by only 4.26%, but the U.S. national debt soared by 61% during that same time period.
#17 During Barack Obama's first two years in office, the U.S. government added more to the U.S. national debt than the first 100 U.S. Congresses combined.
#18 When you add up all spending by the federal government, state governments and local governments, it comes to 46.6% of GDP.
#19 Our nation is more addicted to government checks than ever before. In 1980, government transfer payments accounted for just 11.7% of all income. Today, government transfer payments account for 18.4% of all income.
#20 U.S. households are now actually receiving more money directly from the U.S. government than they are paying to the government in taxes.
#21 A staggering 48.5% of all Americans live in a household that receives some form of government benefits. Back in 1983, that number was below 30 percent.
#22 Back in 1965, only one out of every 50 Americans was on Medicaid. Today, one out of every 6 Americans is on Medicaid.
#23 In 1950, each retiree's Social Security benefit was paid for by 16 U.S. workers. According to new data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, there are now only 1.75 full-time private sector workers for each person that is receiving Social Security benefits in the United States.
#24 The U.S. government now says that the Medicare trust fund will run out five years faster than they were projecting just last year.
#25 Right now, spending by the federal government accounts for about 24 percent of GDP. Back in 2001, it accounted for just 18 percent.
#26 If the U.S. government was forced to use GAAP accounting principles (like all publicly-traded corporations must), the U.S. government budget deficit would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $4 trillion to $5 trillion each and every year.
#27 If you were alive when Christ was born and you spent one million dollars every single day since that point, you still would not have spent one trillion dollars by now. But this year alone the U.S. government is going to add more than a trillion dollars to the national debt.
#28 If right this moment you went out and started spending one dollar every single second, it would take you more than 31,000 years to spend one trillion dollars.
#29 A trillion $10 bills, if they were taped end to end, would wrap around the globe more than 380 times. That amount of money would still not be enough to pay off the U.S. national debt.
#30 If the federal government began right at this moment to repay the U.S. national debt at a rate of one dollar per second, it would take over 470,000 years to pay off the national debt.
#31 If Bill Gates gave every penny of his fortune to the U.S. government, it would only cover the U.S. budget deficit for 15 days.
#32 According to Professor Laurence J. Kotlikoff, the U.S. is facing a "fiscal gap" of over 200 trillion dollars in the future. The following is a brief excerpt from a recent article that he did for CNN....
The government's total indebtedness -- its fiscal gap -- now stands at $211 trillion, by my arithmetic. The fiscal gap is the difference, measured in present value, between all projected future spending obligations -- including our huge defense expenditures and massive entitlement programs, as well as making interest and principal payments on the official debt -- and all projected future taxes.
#33 If you add up all forms of debt in the United States (government, business and consumer), it comes to more than 56 trillion dollars. That is more than $683,000 per family. Unfortunately, the average amount of savings per family in the U.S. is only about $4,735.
#34 The U.S. national debt is now more than 5000 times larger than it was when the Federal Reserve was created back in 1913.
But do our leaders care about statistics such as these?
No.
In fact, Barack Obama says that we need to raise the debt limit by another 1.2 trillion dollars.

Was 2011 the end of the Gold Rush?

Was 2011 the End of the Gold Rush?

Originally Posted by Noisycow

...All three are aware that the dollar and our economy is doomed. ...

It is actually an amusing dilemma to think about: Can foreign owners really credibly threaten to unload their Treasuries, and thus 'doom' the dollar (and our economy)?

Suppose they try to sell in large volumes? The Fed just buys the bonds, and gives the bondholders electronic cash in a bank account somewhere. They "printed money".

Now the foreigners have cash earning nothing instead of Treasuries earning 2 %.
The money supply went up.
Is it inflationary? - Not unless the extra cash leads to spending.

So, if the foreign owners of our bonds want to do anything except exchange instruments yielding 2 % for instruments yielding nothing, they need to sell the bonds and spend the money ...in our economy; this stimulates our economy and reduces our trade deficit. (they could of course also try to buy Swiss francs or gold or euros, but that will get tiring quickly).

We are almost engaged in a game of chicken with foreigners, especially Chinese: we will keep selling bonds as long as you keep buying, and if you start selling, we will start printing money until you start buying large quantities of goods and services from our economy. This is the point where the inflation risk kicks in. When the Chinese and others become ravenous buyers of American stuff, first our economy takes off, then we start hitting up against capacity, then things get inflationary quickly.

I think that phase of the economic game is a few years off... and in the mean time, almost anything can happen.

If this thread is interesting to anyone reading it, you should check out the book "The Creature from Jekyll Island", it's pretty amazing and doesn't really have a lot of doomsday scenarios, but briefly explains monetary systems that have been in use throughout history, and how we the U.S have gone back to a Fiat system after having it fail twice already. Between the Federal Reserve, and Income Tax Withholdings ( I think if Amercans had to write a check for their taxes every year the Fed Government wouldn't have grown to such dramatic proportions), most Amercians have no idea what is going on, but we are definitely on the road to some rocky times. Hard to tell the time table though.

I am amused by people that by PM on paper though. I have a hard time understanding how my computer printout showing how I own 1500oz of Silver is going to be able to convince someone to give me something of actual value. I will feel lots better when I can pick it up and show it to them, you know in the actual physical form.

Originally Posted by NWnewguy

I am amused by people that by PM on paper though. I have a hard time understanding how my computer printout showing how I own 1500oz of Silver is going to be able to convince someone to give me something of actual value. I will feel lots better when I can pick it up and show it to them, you know in the actual physical form.

The really painful discovery by MF Global customers was that even if they bought physical bullion and paid for its storage, a single official appointed to administer the bankruptcy can seize those assets and enforce a "haircut" on those holders - even though they have pieces of paper detailing the lot number and serial number of each bar or coin that they "owned." That's for the customers whose assets are still there at all - some bullion "owners" discovered that their PM's were simply missing from the vault.

And, in an absolutely classic Wall Street move, MF Global is still charging those customers for storage of their bullion that disappeared.

Meanwhile, Gov. Corzine is walking around as free as a cockroach.