Thread: better read and understand this

Originally Posted by bugeye

I pretty much agree with you.
Except, the states are taking on the health care reform law because of political expedient. The supreme court is well stacked to the right (5 to 4) and they may find this law unconstitutional, even if it isn't. The Tea Party is going to vote GOP anyway, this is not news to anyone. It isn't unusual for the feds to prevent a state law from going into effect, how many times did we have to pass the assisted suicide bill? It also isn't unusual for the feds to let the states keep a law that is not compliant with federal law, like the pot laws.

The economy is in flux, I'm betting for it, but for goshsakes, don't expect me to defend that on objective grounds, lol.

I see the same problems you do, our loss of manufacturing, our reliance on paper pushing, and our becoming a service economy. We can't compete with China in engineering and production fields, they live for a month on what we need for a day, their work force is productive, their educational system is cranking out high quality engineers at twice our rate (with that gap increasing exponentially), at low costs without them being $50K in debt for their education. They seem to have structured a system where private firms cooperate, rather than try and take advantage of each other, and we are being left behind by our own greed. So, do we talk tariffs, heck no that will polarize us, do we talk supporting our manufacturing industries, heck no that is socialism - 'free GM so it can crumble', do we create a huge Manhattan type project to create technology that would remake the worlds economy and make our debt look like nothing (fusion power!), heck no let the Europeans do it we spent too much on wars for nothing and being the worlds cops. In addition the USA is the worst imperialist nation ever, regardless of where we take over we only lose money on the deal.

What do we do? There aren't that many options.

We could have lots of inflation, that is usually good for parties that are way in debt, heck no, can't do that either, so the Fed keeps giving the member banks money for nothing and they keep buying T bills with it so they can make a few % on it, talk about a useless self perpetuating cycle! Meanwhile high on the lofty plains of Olympus some very clever weasel has just figured out how to make billions from a few signed pages of paper that aren't even worth the fiber they are printed on. But these folks are going to get their comeuppance, you thought I was going to say by the gov didn't you, nope it's the Chinese, heck any country that can produce a good air compressor that can be sold here at a profit for $100 is going to be able to produce that useless paper for 1/1000th the costs of our investment banks!

And I'm kidding on the square here!

I pretty much agree with you except for the reason the states are pushing back on Obamacare. They can't afford it and it's being pushed on them in an unfunded way. It's also being pushed on you and me in an unfunded way. You and I are going to be required to buy health insurance or pay a fine if we don't have it. The states are saying that's an overreach of the feds' constitutionally limited authority.

Yes, 65% of Americans don't want this bill so you're right they have politics on their side, but that's not the constitutional argument.

Our federal government is so far out of control that we are borrowing almost 1/2 of all we are spending. Don't try that at home, lol.

We're up sheet creek and this shows it. "Deficit" in gray means borrowed - running up debt.

Originally Posted by Gunner3456

Find something better than Wikipedia, which can be written by anyone with a big agenda and a tiny brain.

Look how it contradicts itself, for cryin' out loud:

"Traditionally, the Left includes...and anarchists."

"The contemporary Left usually defines itself as promoting government regulation of business, commerce and industry;"

Now, how in the heck can you have both "regulation of business, commerce and industry," and "anarchy" which means "a state of lawlessness and disorder" and "having no government leader?"

That is the most stupid writeup I've ever seen, and I've seen some stupid ones from Wikipedia.

Look if you want to reinvent the wheel, at least have the common decency to call it something else. I know you can find a definition that fits your terms, you didn't invent this deception, that was done at some right wing thing tank. Wikki is subject to critique from all sides, I find their defintions to be pretty great and accurate.

I'm not an anarchist but I suspect, since they don't like rules and orders, they see business as the major maker of order, and the governments of the world as being the sock puppets of business, so when the sock puppet slaps its maker they cheer and line up on the left. They see the right as supporting these businesses, and you do! In no way could they every line up with the free market people of the right who think capitalism is a perfect savior in religious terms, now could they? They see capitalism as a big scam, where the players work together to rip off the non players, and these players hire soldiers and cops to police the system and keep it working for the benefit of the folks on top. And in addition our anarchists are very for the poor and working classes of the world, and to tell the truth the right really hasn't done much for them. I would also imagine the rights group think would also turn turn them off. And then to add a bit more reason, they have a world perspective not just a nationalist one, and they actively resist the G8 and G20 where capitalism is set up for export worldwide.

Frankly, I don't see any mystery here at all.

Well gunner I agree the last few years of the federal budget have been awful. We don't have a control group earth where bailouts, stimulus and tax cuts didn't happen to check to see if it was worth it. I think it was worth it so far, and hope we will see a real recovery. It is easy to say that control group USA would be thriving, or that they would be in the stone age by now, we don't have it, all we have is speculation. No one in a position of responsiblity was willing to take the risk that the economy could recover without spending to keep it going. Bush and crew wouldn't take that risk, and Obama and crew carried on. If these last few years become typical then your assesment of the end being near is correct, it is an unsustainable level of spending without growth in the economy.

Originally Posted by bugeye

Look if you want to reinvent the wheel, at least have the common decency to call it something else. I know you can find a definition that fits your terms, you didn't invent this deception, that was done at some right wing thing tank. Wikki is subject to critique from all sides, I find their defintions to be pretty great and accurate.

I'm not an anarchist but I suspect, since they don't like rules and orders, they see business as the major maker of order, and the governments of the world as being the sock puppets of business, so when the sock puppet slaps its maker they cheer and line up on the left. They see the right as supporting these businesses, and you do! In no way could they every line up with the free market people of the right who think capitalism is a perfect savior in religious terms, now could they? They see capitalism as a big scam, where the players work together to rip off the non players, and these players hire soldiers and cops to police the system and keep it working for the benefit of the folks on top. And in addition our anarchists are very for the poor and working classes of the world, and to tell the truth the right really hasn't done much for them. I would also imagine the rights group think would also turn turn them off. And then to add a bit more reason, they have a world perspective not just a nationalist one, and they actively resist the G8 and G20 where capitalism is set up for export worldwide.

Frankly, I don't see any mystery here at all.

I can't help you. I showed you the contradictions. It's up to you to comprehend them.