Thread: Buying a silencer question

I would like to have a suppressed pstol, But have always heard horror stories about ATF stopping by at all hours and searching your residence and general harrassment by LEO. I am sure alot of this is just urban legend. So do you "give up" any rights by having a silencer?

Silencers are illegal /thread

Nice one sweetbeard.

I own about a dozen suppressed weapons I have had them for more than 10 years and nobody has ever come in to my house to check my documentation.

Originally Posted by raisersedge

I would like to have a suppressed pstol, But have always heard horror stories about ATF stopping by at all hours and searching your residence and general harrassment by LEO. I am sure alot of this is just urban legend. So do you "give up" any rights by having a silencer?

You are correct. Urban Legend by the uninformed. It is not true.

No where on the ATF form 4 does it say anything about giving up fourth amendment rights. I hear this from gun owners that should know better, so I do not know what motivates them to make up garbage like this.

I believe the only time the ATF is going to show up at your door to inquire about your silencers is if there is a complaint made about you to them or the local authorities. Then they will most likely show up along with the local police with or without a warrant. If there is no warrant, then of course you do not let them search the house or even enter. If you live in a state that requires registration of an NFA weapon to avoid prosecution, then you may want to show them the ATF form, but do not give it to them or let them have a copy. It is a confidential tax document just like your 1040 income tax form.

When a person obtains an FFL, they have to list their business hours on the application so that the ATF can make their yearly unannounced inspection. (that was how it was in the 90's anyway) When I was an FFL, my hours where Sunday 8-4. Visits outside working hours require permission or a warrant. So when the ATF came calling, he asked for permission to inspect. I knew I could deny him, but he would proably return with a warrant and not have been so nice when he found that I had one handgun in the wrong inventory book.

Ranb

no comment

Those that tell such stories do not own any suppressors. They are extremely mistaken. Now if you are a regular FFL, class III dealer or manufacturer you can expect random visits from the ATF during normal business hours.

You do not give up any rights when you buy a silencer.

You have to present proof that it's in your possession at anytime by ATF/LEO. You give up 4th amend rights when you become an FFL, not when you own an NFA item.

Originally Posted by oregonshooter

You have to present proof that it's in your possession at anytime by ATF/LEO. You give up 4th amend rights when you become an FFL, not when you own an NFA item.

You don't have to show an LEO squat unless its your state law that you must do so when asked. An ATF agent is the only LEO that you must show the form to when asked. Sure the locals can haul you in until an ATF field agent comes down and they can make your day as fun as you want it to be but there is no federal legal requirement to show the locals anything. Nothing you could be charged with.

Wired,
You want to split hairs, be my guess.

The NFA actually says the Secretary in one place (all registered weapons of the act) and an ATF agent in another under Form1 documentation. What you want to bet that there is another LAW saying an "agent of the Secretary" somewhere?

Take my advise and don't fight city hall on these issues... you will lose. Next you will tell me I can CCW in the Post Office. LOL

SUBCHAPTER B —
GENERAL PROVISIONS AND
EXEMPTIONS
Part I – General Provisions.
§ 5841 Registration of firearms.

(e) Proof of registration. A person
possessing a firearm registered as required
by this section shall retain proof of
registration which shall be made available
to the Secretary upon request.




§ 479.71 Proof of registration.
The approval by the Director of an
application, Form 1 (Firearms), to
make a firearm under this subpart
shall effectuate registration of the
firearm described in the Form 1
(Firearms) to the person making the
firearm. The original Form 1 (Firearms)
showing approval by the Director
shall be retained by the maker
to establish proof of his registration
of the firearm described therein, and
shall be made available to any ATF
officer on request.

Originally Posted by oregonshooter

Wired,
You want to split hairs, be my guess.

The NFA actually says the Secretary in one place (all registered weapons of the act) and an ATF agent in another under Form1 documentation. What you want to bet that there is another LAW saying an "agent of the Secretary" somewhere?

Take my advise and don't fight city hall on these issues... you will lose. Next you will tell me I can CCW in the Post Office. LOL

It still doesnt say that the locals have any legal authority to ask for your papers. Not saying its a good idea unless you have time to kill or feel like "educating" the local police but the feds cannot mandate to the locals that they do anything. If you are not breaking state laws by not showing the staters your papers you cannot be charged in state. The feds cannot charge you with not showing your papers to a local official.

No, you cant carry in a federal post office and you cant talk on the stupid cell phone either.

So it's not a good idea to be a test case, but you want to make sure people are informed so they can become one if they want. Got ya!

Me I try to give people "common sense" advise because I know that "my" interpretation of a law and limited knowledge of all case law on it are not anywhere near enough to speak authoritatively on the matter. I try not to encourage people to do stupid things, even when it "may" be their right.

!st Amend church video is a good example right now...

So what exactly would you be charged with?

Nothing.