Thread: Out of state Trade between Vancouver and Portland...

What is my best option to trade with someone from portland when I live in vancouver? My question is that can he bring the gun to cockateiler who has a FFL license for Oregon and Washington. Cockateiler who lives here in vancouver and there we can do the trade for a handgun and long gun. Is cockateiler the best route to go for us? Or is there a less expensive route? Thanks!

I believe a FFL is the only way to go.

I know but we wanted to avoid the shipping fees and make it simpler by doing the trading transaction for both guns in vancouver... I just want to make sure if this is legal and possible?

The new owner will owe WA sales/use tax on the weapons that is collected by the FFL here in WA when they do the paperwork.

At Portland guns shows that Cocktailer attends the dealers just hand the handgun to him and he brings it back and does the paperwork at his place. Your case is different though.

How would tax work of you are not actually buying anything but trading?

I think federal regulation prohibits trades across state line. So to avoid shipping and FFL expenses, your best bet is to rent a place in Portland, move there to establish a residency. Then you can lawfully trade with that person.

There's gotta be a simpler way... it's escaping me right now. I will think of it later, I am sure.

Transfer (sell, trade, bater, steal, ect) over state lines without an FFL is illegal.

I am not sure exactly what trade is going what way. For long guns you can get them out of state, but ONLY from an FFL. For pistols it has transferred in the state the receiving party lives in. So if you are receiving a handgun from someone out of state it would have to be done though an FFL in your own state. There is NO requirement for shipping if the selling party takes it to the FFL. Now if you are receiving a firearm in WA you are required to pay a "use" (trick name for sales) tax based on the value of the firearm.

I would wait for Cocktailer to come on here and set it straight for you. I hear has been amazing about taking care of things like this. It is not hard you just have to do the right steps if you want to stay legal.

My source, http://atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html

Edit, saw it was a trade and not a sale. I would contact Cocktailer.

Originally Posted by deen_ad

The new owner will owe WA sales/use tax on the weapons that is collected by the FFL here in WA when they do the paperwork.

Not true! If you are trading equally-valued guns (straight across with no cash) then you will not owe any additional WA state sales/use tax.

See here:

▪Trade-ins: If you trade-in a like-kind
item to reduce the amount you pay
for the tangible personal property,
sales tax is due only on the amount
due after the value of the like-kind
trade-in is subtracted.
For example, you purchase a car for
$20,000. The dealer accepts your
current car as a trade-in valued at
$5,000. Therefore, you owe sales
tax on $15,000. NOTE: If the dealer
gives you $5,000 cash instead of
subtracting that amount from the
new car price, then you have not
traded-in your vehicle. In such a case,
sales tax is due on the full $20,000
price of your new vehicle.
(WAC 458-20-247)

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...CzIfsqAvDR9LsA


FYI: This post edited after being quoted....

Originally Posted by pchewn

Only partially true .... the new owner will owe WA sales/use tax on the DIFFERENCE (if positive) of the value between the new gun and the traded-in gun.

See here:




http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...CzIfsqAvDR9LsA

Which is ridiculous. Are they going to pay if you trade for something of less value?

Martha Fudger! I fudging hate all of these stupid laws! They are going to make me insane! Or even insanerer!

Insane in the membrane.
Insane in the brain!

Wait, WA residents have to pay use tax on a used item bought from a private party ?

Agree but just spoke to cockatiel he said if its straight trade or my situation then no tax

Originally Posted by fd15k

Wait, WA residents have to pay use tax on a used item bought from a private party ?

If you are a good citizen you would pay your "tax" on everything you buy.......

Just ask the state, they will tell you.

Originally Posted by Nwcid

If you are a good citizen you would pay your "tax" on everything you buy.......

That's sarcasm, I assume

Lots of sarcasm. But is technically true if you read the law.

Originally Posted by Nwcid

Lots of sarcasm. But is technically true if you read the law.

I haven't read the law, maybe you can sum it up ? Let's assume following scenario:

1) Bob buys a new gun in California. Sales tax.
2) Bob moves to Oregon, and sells the gun to John. No tax.
3) John sells the gun to Roger in Washington. Use tax ?
4) Roger sells the gun to Jamie. Sales tax ?
5) Jamie sells the gun to Bill in Oregon. No tax.

Same gun sold and resold multiple times, sometimes across state lines. What do you think ?

Originally Posted by fd15k

I haven't read the law, maybe you can sum it up ? Let's assume following scenario:

1) Bob buys a new gun in California. Sales tax.
2) Bob moves to Oregon, and sells the gun to John. No tax.
3) John sells the gun to Roger in Washington. Use tax ?
4) Roger sells the gun to Jamie. Sales tax ?
5) Jamie sells the gun to Bill in Oregon. No tax.

Same gun sold and resold multiple times, sometimes across state lines. What do you think ?

I'm not familiar with the Washington tax laws but I'll try to answer. The state websites say the buyer has to prove tax has been paid. They also have a requirement that the sales tax can't be lower than WA. Looks like if someone could prove a firearm came from a state with an adequate sales tax, they might avoid use tax. I'm guessing if the documentation doesn't follow the gun, you pay the tax.

Use tax

When is use tax due?
Use tax is due if:

Goods are purchased in another state that does not have a sales tax or a state with a sales tax lower than Washington’s. For example, items you purchase in Oregon that are used in Washington are subject to use tax.
Goods are purchased from someone who is not authorized to collect sales tax. For example, purchases of furniture from an individual through a newspaper classified ad or a purchase of artwork from an individual collector.
Goods are purchased out of state by subscription, through the Internet, or from a mail order catalog company. Many of these companies collect Washington’s sales tax, but if the company from which you order does not, you owe the use tax.
Personal property is acquired with the purchase of real property.

Interstate transfers of firearms

Tax has already been paid
In cases where the firearm owner can provide proof of sales or use tax paid to Washington, the Washington dealer is not required to collect use tax. The Washington dealer must keep proof of tax paid. In cases where the firearm owner can provide proof of sales or use tax paid to other states, the firearm owner is eligible for a credit against the use tax for the amount of sales or use tax paid to the other state (RCW 82.12.035).

Originally Posted by fd15k

I haven't read the law, maybe you can sum it up ? Let's assume following scenario:

1) Bob buys a new gun in California. Sales tax.
2) Bob moves to Oregon, and sells the gun to John. No tax.
3) John sells the gun to Roger in Washington. Use tax ?
4) Roger sells the gun to Jamie. Sales tax ?
5) Jamie sells the gun to Bill in Oregon. No tax.

Same gun sold and resold multiple times, sometimes across state lines. What do you think ?

California and Washington are too damn tax hungry. The whole idea of paying sales or "use" tax on used items, or items you already own if you move into washington is repugnant. If an Oregon resident moves to Washington and is a good boy and registers their car there - they have to pay a sales/use tax on the car that they already own when they register the vehicle there, because they didn't pay a sales tax on that car in Oregon. You only get to skip that tax if you bought the car in a state where you already paid sales tax on. That's bubblegumed and shows just how greedy the government is. Same thing with private sales.

Its like how Washington state effectively forced Mattress World to close - they demanded Sheri Heiner collect sales tax on items she sold to Washington residents, and demanded back taxes. She's closing her businesses down now partly because of that crap. Now Mattress Discounters (or is it Discount Mattresses?) from California is moving into the region to take over some of her stores. Washington residents shouldn't have to pay Washington sales tax on items they buy in Oregon, and they shouldn't be demanding Oregon businesses be defacto tax collectors for them. If Oregon's governor and government had a spine, they'd raise the middle finger to our northern cousin and tell them they can't collect their sales tax in Oregon.