Thread: CCing at Sheriff's office legal?!?

So I had an interesting experience today at Washington County Sheriff offices. Every time I now go into any government building I look for the firearm warning signs (always a smart thing to do). As expected, there was a large brown sign indicating it was prohibited to bring firearms into the court room and jail. No surprise there. Then I dawned on me that's not all there is! I asked to several people; here is a summary of their answers:
1. clerk at Information, building entrance: ok to CC except jail and courtroom
2. employees at the CC office: same as above
3. Sheriff deputy-ette at jail counter: can't carry anywhere in the building.

I did not get an uniform answer which does not surprise me at all for all the reasons previously stated ad nauseam in other threads. I had yet another quick chat with Cmrd W. Bose; wished it had occurred to me to ask him, too.

Bottom line, today was the last day I will stop CCing while at the Sheriff's for non-jail-&-courtroom related business.

Hope this info is as helpful to others as it was to me.

Not in my county.

1. clerk at Information, building entrance: ok to CC except jail and courtroom
2. employees at the CC office: same as above

MOST LIKELY TO KNOW THE ACTUAL LAW

3. Sheriff deputy-ette at jail counter: can't carry anywhere in the building.

LEAST LIKELY TO KNOW THE ACTUAL LAW

Originally Posted by Mark W.

LEAST LIKELY TO KNOW THE ACTUAL LAW

And the most likely to tell you whatever they might think they know about the law, without doing any research or double checking of any sort, to back up their claim.

There is no law in the ORS that says it is not ok to carry in a Sheriff's Office here in Oregon. Although, depending on county, the office could be located in an area of a courthouse where it is not ok to carry.

Went through that with the sheriff's office in Vancouver. They've had it posted as a no carry zone for years. They finally admitted that that was wrong and took the signs down.

If you have questions about gun laws and CHL's ask the awesome people at OFF. The actually have a book for Oregon gun owners.
There are very knowledgeable. Law Enforcement may not know every law that is out there.

OFF website: Oregon Firearms Federation
If they don't have what you are looking for shoot them an email and they will get back to you...

I have a funny story about NOT carrying at the courthouse.
The Wife and I needed to go to the courthouse one day. As soon as you walk in they have the Deputy, walk through metal detector and the X-Ray machine. I had already "prepared" myself before we left the car. The Wife goes first. Deputy X-Rays her purse and she walks through the metal detector without a beep. I follow next and of coarse I got the beep. Deputy wands me and gets a beep from my metal belt buckle and something on my right hip. GEE what could that be? As I lift my shirt to show metal clips on an empty holster. Deputy, without saying a word, re-runs my Wife's purse through the X-Ray and we continue on our way.
Mike

I just leave the holster and everything in the car. Our court house people are super paranoid. I even leave my nail clippers in the car.

Yeah, in Lane County SO is at the courthouse so it's a no go. Get this, the rent-a-cop security screener made my wife take her wallet out to car because it had a cowboy gun applique on it!

Be careful that the Sheriff's office isn't part of the courthouse or jail. Even then, I'm paranoid now and I don't do it. I need NO more hassles.

On the WA side, the public areas are ok to carry, the jail proper and the court room areas are not. They are supposed to have the metal detectors and lock boxes at the enterance to the restricted areas.

Originally Posted by hermannr

They are supposed to have the metal detectors and lock boxes at the enterance to the restricted areas.

Question on that, how many of you actually check your gun in at the boxes?

Matt

Originally Posted by hermannr

On the WA side, the public areas are ok to carry, the jail proper and the court room areas are not. They are supposed to have the metal detectors and lock boxes at the enterance to the restricted areas.

The Washington County Sheriff Office building jail area has lockers, just before the metal detectors. In fact, it was the sight of the lockers what gave me the idea to ask in first place. I remembered not long ago reading a thread here about a WA member who had to leave his firearm in the car and park it outside the correctional facilities, in clear violation to WA State law.

Nevertheless, nobody at the Sheriff's office could categorically confirm I could store my firearm in the lockers. The most reassuring where people at the CHL area, an ex-deputy among them. They said they'd expect CC-ing attorneys to leave their firearms in such lockers. Or course, the deputy-ette said I could not even bring it into the building so it was a moot question. I did not get deep enough into the court room area to notice any locker area. Nevertheless, the jail and the court areas are only a few steps away so I would consider using the jail area lockers.

I have another theory about the jail deputy: she hates the idea of armed citizens being so close to her while she's sitting behind that counter, feels too vulnerable. By spreading misinformation, she tried to rid of at least one armed citizen who could exploit her vulnerability.

One thing that surprised me was that the guy and gal (deputy sheriff's by their uniform) at the metal detectors at the Skagit Co court house were not armed themselves.

And yes, the offer you a locker they do not tell you to take it back to your car. I have on call jury duty for Jan.here in Okanogan County. I've never been in the courts here yet. Last time I was on call for jury duty, they did not call....tell you later if I actually get called up to serve

Before I went in to get my address change on my CHL at Washington Co. I called to see if I needed an apt and asked if I could CC while I was at the conceal carry office. The lady told me I could and the next day when I went in, I was CCing. I think it would be dumb to go to a conceal carry office and not be able to CC.

While I was at the office I asked them about conceal carrying a Draco... they told me they were not sure.... I said well it's considered a pistol and they wanted me to go look up the definition of a PISTOL according to OR law hahahah.

Over the last few months the Washco jail hired a handful of new corrections deputies. They're still learning so outside of the corrections part of it, I wouldn't expect them to know all the laws.

Today there are metal detectors at the entrance of jail visiting and the court room. Jail visiting has lockers for people wanting to secure their belongings before going through either metal detector.

As usual, "my interpretation", "consult a lawyer", etc, etc, etc...

From my reading, only court rooms are automatically no-gun-zones, not court houses. A judge may declare his/her office, and hallways adjoining his/her office and court room as no-gun zones as well. So it's probably a good thing to assume that those are also off-limits. (For example, a couple years ago I had to go to the Clackamas County courthouse in Oregon City, where the main hall as soon as you enter has judge offices and court rooms right there. So there it is obviously a no-go-zone.) Note that this only applies to CHL holders in Oregon - the law CLEARLY forbids guns in "court facilities" (the entire building) to those without a CHL.

I can not find a single reference to guns being prohibited in jails in Oregon.

What I wonder is, if it is legal to carry in to these facilities, when they have a metal detector, what would happen if you beeped, but refused to give up your firearm? (I'm not about to be the test case for this, more of an "intellectual curiosity" thing.) Note that I have carried in both city police and county sheriff offices with no problems. (Including carrying in the Portland Police Central Precinct, which shares the building with the county Justice Center, although they have separate entrances. I even verified with the clerk at the precinct before going any further in, and she said "as long as you have a CHL, you're fine.")

You didn't look hard enough...

Firearms are prohibited in jails under ORS 162.185 Supplying contraband. The sheriff is within his/her power and right to deem a firearm as contraband and restrict it.

You can check the statue out for yourself at : http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/162.html 162.185

In Washco's own word:
"No person may bring a firearm, weapon or other contraband into the secured perimeter of the Washington County Jail, and all visitors to the jail must go through a security screening and metal detector. Knowingly introducing contraband into a correctional facility is a Class C felony."

Even Correction deputies and LEOs are not permitted to bring their duty weapons into the secured areas of the jail. And you'd be hard to argue that it was a honest mistake, they have signs everywhere. Even in the secured areas.

As far as the courts go, it is up to the Presiding Judge on how restrictive they want to be. Covered under ORS 166.370 and Oregon Uniform Trial Court Rule 6.180. The PJ has the power to restrict weapons from the entire court house. Getting caught with a firearm on court property can lead to a number of things such as getting charged with Trespassing and Contempt. Covered under: http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/166.html start with ORS 166.370 and work your way down.

and don't confuse "(d) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun." for a pass to carry in a court facility, the PJ has the last word and can even restrict LEOs from carrying on court premises.

"when they have a metal detector, what would happen if you beeped, but refused to give up your firearm?"

at the very least, you'll be asked to leave, if you're an *** about it, you'll lose your CHL. at the worst, you'll get a not so friendly tour of the jail and learn a costly lesson.

The short answer to the thread title is yes. See ORS 166.360(4): “Public building” means a hospital, a capitol building, a public or private school, as defined in ORS 339.315, a college or university, a city hall or the residence of any state official elected by the state at large, and the grounds adjacent to each such building. The term also includes that portion of any other building occupied by an agency of the state or a municipal corporation, as defined in ORS 297.405, other than a court facility.

Note that "court facilities" (defined in 166.360(2)) are specifically excluded, and the definition given in subsection (4) does not include jails.

A quick note on carrying in courts: the way I read 166.370, nobody may carry inside a court facility unless and until the PJ has issued an order permitting possession of "specified weapons." Presumably, most of not all PJs have issued such orders, pertaining to sworn LEOs.