Thread: Illegal discharge of firearm citation.

They are really putting a stop to everything up at wildcat mountain. I have always gone up there without any issue. I got a nice citation for shooting at a hiking trail which I was not aware of. No signs of anything, no signs of even a hiking trail or no shooting. I thought it was an ideal place to shoot since there was a pretty good back stop and behind the back stop was a cliff. 10 rounds later a US forest service guy come at us heated like we had a clue what we were doing. Once he found out we had no clue there was a trail and we picked up our targets he simmered down. Hoping we would get a warning and a get the F out of here, we got a nice fine. So for heads up, if anybody goes shooting at wild cat, once you hit one way road, dont take your first right going up the road. According to the US forest service guy, we can shoot anywhere north. I am debating fighting the citation mainly because there wasn't any form of warnings or signs of hikers.

I would mount a video cam on the dash for for a drive showing no sign's.. and fight it..

Good idea. If i lose would I have to pay more than the original fine?

If you're gonna fight it you'd better get video or pics of the lack of signage ASAP.

Lots of pictures of your back stop (was it really a safe back stop?). Take pics of the area showing the lack of signs. See if there is a way to find out how many other "firearms" tickets have been issued for that area. See if it is posted on the FS website about no shooting.

Was there a "information" board of any kind along the road or at the base of the road? If not note that. If so then take pics of the information on the board to see if it shows no shooting.

Always fight.

I don't understand what you mean about signs. You were either shooting with a safe back stop or not and you can either prove it or not? Ken

There is a small sign way up on a fir tree, on both ends of the trail heads near the quarry cliff. It's a marker for the Douglass Ridge trail.
Hikers coming down from the East trail are hidden from your sight until they get right above you.
They bulldozed the spur road just NE of the gravel pit too.

Good luck.

As signs I mean like no shooting signs, no firearms allowed, hiking trail ahead. The back stop is a good 30-35 feet high. So in my mind, that is a good area to shoot.

Originally Posted by jbett98

There is a small sign way up on a fir tree, on both ends of the trail heads near the quarry cliff. It's a marker for the Douglass Ridge trail.
Hikers coming down from the East trail are hidden from your site until they get right above you.
They bulldozed the spur road just NE of the gravel pit too.

Forgot to mention that I only saw a stake in the ground with a hiking drawing. That was only after looking for signs or indications for no shooting for 10 mins. What sense is there to put a sign if it is in a inconspicuous place.

Well I don't know which Wildcat Ridge you are talking about, but i would check with the local Sheriff to see if it is even possible for a Forest Service guy to write a citation. I know over in Grant County Sheriff Palmer asked the FS under who's authority they were writing "tickets" and harassing people in the NF. They said it was with an agreement with him, he just said, ain't no more, you have no agreement and no authority to write tickets in my county.

Like I said, you might want to check with the local Sheriff to see if this FS guy can even write a valid ticket for anything.

Thanks for the heads up hermannr

Originally Posted by 19stang88

Thanks for the heads up hermannr

Oh, just courious. What law did this guy sight when he wrote the ticket? Second was this State Forest? or NF? Look up the law and see who has juristiction (F&W probably, but could be someone else)...anyway, Forest Service (State or Fed) are not normally law enforcement. If Fed, they have no power at all to write a "ticket" under state law without the consent of the local Sheriff. If Fed, they may(highly unlikely) have the ability to write a federal ticket for a federal law violation, however, federal law, in cases like yours, is "State Law"

The only laws I know in WA (I know, you were in OR) is you cannot fire along or across a "public road" (F&W). Trails? there is no law. Make sure you look up teh law sighted and see if it actually fits what you think you were sighted for.

It's not the FS job to post a sign anywhere and everywhere someone might chose to shoot. It's on you to make sure it's a safe situation. Always. It either was safe or it wasn't safe and either way, it's on you, not some government agent, to make sure. Which was it?

Originally Posted by hermannr

Oh, just courious. What law did this guy sight when he wrote the ticket? Second was this State Forest? or NF? Look up the law and see who has juristiction (F&W probably, but could be someone else)...anyway, Forest Service (State or Fed) are not normally law enforcement. If Fed, they have no power at all to write a "ticket" under state law without the consent of the local Sheriff. If Fed, they may(highly unlikely) have the ability to write a federal ticket for a federal law violation, however, federal law, in cases like yours, is "State Law"

The only laws I know in WA (I know, you were in OR) is you cannot fire along or across a "public road" (F&W). Trails? there is no law. Make sure you look up teh law sighted and see if it actually fits what you think you were sighted for.

called the clackamas county sheriffs office and they do indeed have authority to give out citations. I made sure I wasn't shooting at a road.

Originally Posted by billcoe

It's not the FS job to post a sign anywhere and everywhere someone might chose to shoot. It's on you to make sure it's a safe situation. Always. It either was safe or it wasn't safe and either way, it's on you, not some government agent, to make sure. Which was it?

I got to the pit. observed the area, the back stop was good to shoot at. 10 ft from where I was shooting from, there was a cliff. When I came back to observe the place after the citation I found a trail sign hidden in the bushes.

Originally Posted by hermannr

Oh, just courious. What law did this guy sight when he wrote the ticket? Second was this State Forest? or NF? Look up the law and see who has juristiction (F&W probably, but could be someone else)...anyway, Forest Service (State or Fed) are not normally law enforcement. If Fed, they have no power at all to write a "ticket" under state law without the consent of the local Sheriff. If Fed, they may(highly unlikely) have the ability to write a federal ticket for a federal law violation, however, federal law, in cases like yours, is "State Law"

The only laws I know in WA (I know, you were in OR) is you cannot fire along or across a "public road" (F&W). Trails? there is no law. Make sure you look up teh law sighted and see if it actually fits what you think you were sighted for.

The Forest service (fed) (department of Agriculture) does have LEO's..Evan the summer temps. have the power to write tickets in a no fire zone..Go over to the sand dunes and break any of the rules and see how fast you get a ticket...

What was the CFR you were charged with violating? (example: 36 CFR 261.10 (d)(2))

Originally Posted by pokerace

The Forest service (fed) (department of Agriculture) does have LEO's..Evan the summer temps. have the power to write tickets in a no fire zone..Go over to the sand dunes and break any of the rules and see how fast you get a ticket...

FS LEO's carry guns and can write tickets. The regular (seasonal or fulltime) FS Rangers can write tickets if they have earned the FPO (Forest Protection Officer) status. FPO's can't carry weapons.

The thing is: There still has to be a law you violated on the citation. Is the law you violated a federal law (I very much doubt it) or a state law. If it was a state (or fed) law, which law was cited as being violated?

Stang,

I'm sorry to hear that.
Good luck with the outcomes.
This is a sad commentary on our times.