Thread: Do you think the Portland Police should learn how to disarm persons without firearms.

Seems that they are building a track record of shootings. Some very warrented, but, some seem that if they were trained better, they would lower their kill rate. This recent one over the weekend of a 60 year old, homeless Viet Nam Vet is very sorryful. There are ways to disarm knife welding assailants, especially if you have a squad of patrol officers. Asian Police have been doing this for countless years--and not shooting the perp. How many mentally ill people have been killed, when in some cases, a less lethal alternaive could have affected the situation. But, likely, the police were never trained in these methods. Sammie is become a public figure at these shootings.

P.S. By example, if several police showed up armed with a pistol and were trained with 40" Escrimasa Riot Sticks, that would do the trick. Simply, take out the legs of the assailant. It is a manditory to show up with a gun, but a crew of officers, with training and sticks, and a few strikes, the legs go out. And of course, this in not an opportunity to beat the person with death with sticks. He'd rather be shot. In this case, the assailant is disarmed without fireing a shot.

Why would you disarm someone without a firearm??


LOL

T_H

Yes, like in this video.

YouTube - Cop saves woman from knife with jumping kick

It is pretty crazy the amount of shootings recently.... I wonder what the statistics are for similar sized cities?

#1 lesson from the most recent shooting: Never show up to a gun fight with a knife.

Do you think the Portland Police should learn how to disarm persons without firearms.

I do actually. I don't think I would need to use a firearm to disarm a mentally disabled homeless guy with a knife. Maybe if he was really big and really fit and scary looking. But homeless guys are usually quite the opposite. They should learn some martial arts or something.

Originally Posted by spengo

I do actually. I don't think I would need to use a firearm to disarm a mentally disabled homeless guy with a knife. Maybe if he was really big and really fit and scary looking. But homeless guys are usually quite the opposite. They should learn some martial arts or something.

A man can cover 27 feet in less than two seconds. If you are that close to a knife you are in imminent danger. They tried a bean bag round and the guy would not drop the knife. I am sure they would accept civilian volunteers to respond to those calls and walk up to the prep with the knife and talk to him.

Originally Posted by tkdguy

Seems that they are building a track record of shootings. Some very warrented, but, some seem that if they were trained better, they would lower their kill rate. This recent one over the weekend of a 60 year old, homeless Viet Nam Vet is very sorryful. There are ways to disarm knife welding assailants, especially if you have a squad of patrol officers. Asian Police have been doing this for countless years--and not shooting the perp. How many mentally ill people have been killed, when in some cases, a less lethal alternaive could have affected the situation. But, likely, the police were never trained in these methods. Sammie is become a public figure at these shootings.

P.S. By example, if several police showed up armed with a pistol and were trained with 40" Escrimasa Riot Sticks, that would do the trick. Simply, take out the legs of the assailant. It is a manditory to show up with a gun, but a crew of officers, with training and sticks, and a few strikes, the legs go out. And of course, this in not an opportunity to beat the person with death with sticks. He'd rather be shot. In this case, the assailant is disarmed without fireing a shot.

I would think that someone who presents himself as a martial artist would realize just how dangerous a man with a knife can be............

Originally Posted by MA Duce

A man can cover 27 feet in less than two seconds. If you are that close to a knife you are in imminent danger. They tried a bean bag round and the guy would not drop the knife. I am sure they would accept civilian volunteers to respond to those calls and walk up to the prep with the knife and talk to him.

I'm not blaming them for their actions, they were well within their rights to shoot. In some cases though it might be worth it to make a go for a non-deadly take-down even after the bean bag doesn't work. I mean, if you're a fit guy with some decent martial arts skills under his belt and you're up against a fat bearded hobo who's gone crazy with a knife, I think you could probably disarm him without seriously endangering yourself. It's all relative of course, I wouldn't try it against a guy who's fit, fast, and looks like he knows how to handle the knife.

They should have firearms out when disarming.

Originally Posted by MA Duce

A man can cover 27 feet in less than two seconds. If you are that close to a knife you are in imminent danger. They tried a bean bag round and the guy would not drop the knife. I am sure they would accept civilian volunteers to respond to those calls and walk up to the prep with the knife and talk to him.

How likely is it that a 60 year old homeless man could cover 27 feet in less than 2 seconds? lol. Don't get me wrong, a person with a knife can be dangerous for sure. It would seem to me that a squad of officers against a old, homeless guy could probably take him alive somehow.

Originally Posted by tkdguy

Do you think the Portland Police should learn how to disarm persons without firearms?

Absolutely.
It can be done; with the proper training; and of course, more training means more costs.

By the way, whatever happend with beanbag guns?

Yeah, sorry. Suspect has weapon. Suspect is told multiple times to drop his weapon. Suspect refuses. Suspect acts aggressive. Officer asserts his right to go home to his family at the end of the shift. Suspect forfeited his right. He had the choice. Sorry. No sympathy, and no wish for the officer to try to disarm him. Chances are that he doesn't know the suspect from Adam, so to speak. For all he knows, he could be a trained knife-fighter.

Maybe people should start by doing what the police tell them to do?? Maybe if we put the knife down, gun down, weapon down when they tell you to you would not end up on the ten o'clock news!
At the end of the day if it is me or the other guy going home, It will be me every time i can!!

My 2cents!

Originally Posted by spengo

I do actually. I don't think I would need to use a firearm to disarm a mentally disabled homeless guy with a knife. Maybe if he was really big and really fit and scary looking. But homeless guys are usually quite the opposite. They should learn some martial arts or something.

Ever heard of bubblegum strength?? It is no joke! Problem is, you cannot REASON with a CRAZY person!!

I have to agree with Coctailer, Mountainbear and Tacticalinsertion7923. The officers have a matter of seconds to make these decisions...You #1 pull a knife on cops (dumb). #2 ignore commands to stand down and drop the knife (dumber) #3 you advance towards the officers with knife in hand (dumb enough to get shot)...#4 officers are going home to their families god willing.

I have a hard time sympathizing with any one who wields a weapon and gets shot/killed.

Step 1: Don't wield your weapon in public, threatening civilians around you. If you ignore this, see step 2.
Step 2: When a cop says to drop your weapon, do it. If you ignore this, see step 3.
Step 3: When a cop says he will shoot you if you don't comply, you should probably comply.
Step 4: When you're dead and on NBC news, don't expect sympathy from me.

It is completely withing the control of all of us to not get our a$$ shot. It's quite simple actually.

In the case of mentally challenged homeless, I'll admit that there are a lot of other factors to take in. Whether a person is aware of what they are doing or not, if they are posing a physical threat to other civilians, then the benefit of the doubt shouldn't lie with the violent criminal.

my $.02

Originally Posted by Karma

How likely is it that a 60 year old homeless man could cover 27 feet in less than 2 seconds? lol. Don't get me wrong, a person with a knife can be dangerous for sure. It would seem to me that a squad of officers against a old, homeless guy could probably take him alive somehow.

You only need to be lucky with 1 hit to kill someone with a knife.

seems like there a lot of citizens getting their a$$e$ kicked lately by cops , probably most of them did not comply with the officers commands, but who wants to be ordered around anyway?

I have a saying.... I may have made a wrong choice, but its YOUR actions that mandated I make a choice to begin with.
Im not sure a mentally ill person is capable of reasoning that "If I dont put this knife down, something bad could happen"..... We are falling into the same trap that politicians fall into when this happens. We concern ourselves with the aftermath or end result of a problem..... not once in the news, not once from a politician, and not once in this thread have a I heard one comment about the ROOT CAUSE..... this was a mentally ill veteran..... what did we do as a society to nip this in the bud. Shame on us all for not demanding better care of the people that risked their lives for our country.
EDIT: I also support a cops right to make it home to tuck their children into bed at night.