Thread: Portland Ofc. shoots 12yr old girl with bean bag.

Originally Posted by JAFO

Want to bet $50 that PPB guidelines will be different now?

Thank goodness that something good will come of this.

Want to bet the new policy for the PPB will cost us more then $50 lol

Originally Posted by usmc0311

Really? You're gonna focus on two sentences I said at the beginning, and ignore everything else? I don't care if it was about guns or gangs or anything else.

So what if the crowd wasn't being unruly? They sure were piling off the MAX, and that presented a situation where they could become unruly and the situation could become out of control..

Do you think all the cops rallying behind Humphreys are dirtbags too? Should we fire the entire Bureau because of your armchair police work? I'd like to hear your thoughts on that (the bulk of my post) instead of focusing on the first two sentences..

I read all of it. At the end you said:

"I dunno, it all seems pretty clear cut to me. The media is playing it up as this huge miscairrage of justice and emphasizing certain aspects in order to sell more papers, get more internet traffic, and ultimately sell more ad space.."

I don't have any space to sell in a paper or on the internet and I don't have a dog in this fight other than as a citizen. I do think it's a miscarriage of justice when 4 cops can't take down a teenager without that potentially dangerous and even deadly shotgun.

I also think the LEO who fired endangered the officers who were on the girl.

I don't begrudge you your opinion and I see where you're coming from. I just disagree, and think that using that weapon in that place under those circumstance was a very bad choice.

Peace.

Originally Posted by JAFO

Want to bet $50 that PPB guidelines will be different now?

Thank goodness that something good will come of this.

Originally Posted by USMC1911

Want to bet the new policy for the PPB will cost us more then $50 lol

I'll bet that the shooter's actions cost the city a wad of money in an out of court settlement, and the officer his job.

Originally Posted by usmc0311

So what if the crowd wasn't being unruly? They sure were piling off the MAX, and that presented a situation where they could become unruly and the situation could become out of control.

Except the chances of that happening are virtually zero.

Also, as mentioned earlier... the officer recognized the girl, which means that they entered the platform anticipating the removal of a 12yr old girl from the train. Thats it. Do they really need such a show of force to 86 a 12yr old? Was the shotgun really necessary to apprehend her? He should have left it in his car, and none of this would have happened. They would have had to fight her for another minute or so... or maybe Humphreys could have helped cuff her instead of walking around constantly trying to keep the shotgun from falling off of his shoulder.

IMO from watching the video... he brought that shotgun with every intention of using it. When he entered the platform there was ALREADY A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER... when he decides to fire it, he racks the slide and you can see a round ejected from the chamber (which another officer later picks up)
Everything about this situation is suspicious. He clearly was operating outside of how he was trained.

Originally Posted by usmc0311

Do you think all the cops rallying behind Humphreys are dirtbags too? Should we fire the entire Bureau because of your armchair police work? I'd like to hear your thoughts on that (the bulk of my post) instead of focusing on the first two sentences..

They are rallying behind him out of solidarity... Im sure that many of them would have acted differently in the same situation.

Your armchair policework would have the city bankrupt from lawsuits. Allhe had to do was follow his training... thats it.

Originally Posted by shibbershabber

Also, as mentioned earlier... the officer recognized the girl, which means that they entered the platform anticipating the removal of a 12yr old girl from the train.

Or, they entered the platform anticipating the removal of this 12yr old girl from the train. Perhaps the officers prior encounters with this 12 year old girl, and possibly her friends lead them to believe that a less-than-lethal tool would be good to have along?

And that "They would have had to fight her for another minute or so..." idea, remember, that that was the MO that got the last guy killed.

Originally Posted by VinnieBoomBah

Or, they entered the platform anticipating the removal of this 12yr old girl from the train. Perhaps the officers prior encounters with this 12 year old girl, and possibly her friends lead them to believe that a less-than-lethal tool would be good to have along?

And that "They would have had to fight her for another minute or so..." idea, remember, that that was the MO that got the last guy killed.

How appropriate that you say you're in "Denial."

Originally Posted by VinnieBoomBah

Or, they entered the platform anticipating the removal of this 12yr old girl from the train. Perhaps the officers prior encounters with this 12 year old girl, and possibly her friends lead them to believe that a less-than-lethal tool would be good to have along?

I highly doubt it. Again, I predict that such evidence will never surface.

Originally Posted by VinnieBoomBah

And that "They would have had to fight her for another minute or so..." idea, remember, that that was the MO that got the last guy killed.

Well, I personally dont believe that Chasse was accidentally killed while being cuffed.

Would you not agree, after watching the tape, that things would have gone down better if he had left the shotgun in the car and used his hands to cuff the girl instead of waiting for an opportunity to shoot her?

Originally Posted by shibbershabber

Would you not agree, after watching the tape, that things would have gone down better if he had left the shotgun in the car and used his hands to cuff the girl instead of waiting for an opportunity to shoot her?

No, I would not agree to that statement. Things would have gone better if she had not violently resisted the officers. Or maybe he could have used a Taser. That would have worked. But ultimately, I have seen nothing to convince me that anyone other than the violent felon (uh, attacking a police officer and violently resisting arrest, those are felonies, right?) is responsible for what happened that night.

"But . . . but . . . he's a bad man that cop! He killed someone!"

Maybe, but totally irrelevant. I know a lot of folks have issues with the way PDP does things, and I'm not saying that I know everything about the good and the bad things they do. But this as a cause celebre? Don't see it.



Or wait, I did figure out who else is responsible! Her parents!!

ETA

Originally Posted by shibbershabber

Well, I personally dont believe that Chasse was accidentally killed while being cuffed.

So what do you believe?

Originally Posted by VinnieBoomBah

No, I would not agree to that statement. Things would have gone better if she had not violently resisted the officers. Or maybe he could have used a Taser. That would have worked. But ultimately, I have seen nothing to convince me that anyone other than the violent felon (uh, attacking a police officer and violently resisting arrest, those are felonies, right?) is responsible for what happened that night.

"But . . . but . . . he's a bad man that cop! He killed someone!"

Maybe, but totally irrelevant. I know a lot of folks have issues with the way PDP does things, and I'm not saying that I know everything about the good and the bad things they do. But this as a cause celebre? Don't see it.



Or wait, I did figure out who else is responsible! Her parents!!

ETA

Seriously! You dont think that if Humphreys actually helped the other officer cuff her that he would have been unsuccessful? Really... you really think that the only way to cuff this chick was to use some sort or weapon, beanbag or otherwise? You have got to be kidding me... are you taking this position for the sake of the argument or do you REALLY believe that Humphreys and the other officers are so inept that, together, they would not be able to cuff that girl?

Violent felon? She is some brain-dead kid... not even a teenager, an untrained, overweight slob of a girl... You may have a point, but she wasnt a violent felon when they approached her.

You make it sound like Barney Fife trying to take down Bruce Lee.

Originally Posted by VinnieBoomBah

So what do you believe?

I wont go so far as to say that they intended to kill him. I believe that for whatever reason, they were roughing him up beyond what was necessary to arrest him for whatever it was Chasse was charged with.
Maybe he could have just snapped, tired of dealing with homeless weirdos all the time? Maybe he was having trouble at home, or for whatever reason he had some issues and took it out on some bum? I dont know the why of it... just the how... and the injuries Chasse sustained were not consistant with the story that was given. Period. Its a fact. So while Im sure it was an accident, it was negligence... and negligently killing someone is a crime.

So, out of all the officers, and all the arrests in the entire metro area... how is it that Humphreys finds himself connected to two high profile excessive force cases? This is more than just coincidence. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

what say you to that?

Originally Posted by usmc0311

First off, he shot her in the thigh, not the head, neck, torso or groin. Second of all, your expert lives and works on the East Coast in DC. They weren't there, and I would be willing to bet that he is not familiar with PPB policy and procedure. From everything I've read, Humphreys actions fell withing PPB guidelines for using the beanbag shotgun.

First off, he took an "make up my own policy as I go" approach moving around the other officer at that close of a range trying to get a shot.
Second of all, The LEO's of PPB go to the same Oregon Academy as all our State's LEO's unless they do all this in secret someone who is a recogized expert knows what they are talking about.

Originally Posted by pirateer2007

I'm a youth pastor and I have been for almost 10 years. I have never come across a 12y.o. girl I'd need to use any sort of weapon on. I'm 6'1" and 290lbs and proficient at Brazilian Jiu Jitsu so that may have something to do with it, but I can imagine there are some out there, somewhere who could put up a bit of a fight(unless they have a gun... then I become the 12y.o. girl). Still it seems like it may have been a little extreme to blast her with a Bean Bag round. I wasn't there though and don't know the circumstances surrounding this event. I hope these guys are cleared. Is there a link to the video or the arrest report?

Ah..but it sounds like, it'd be okay to kick the cr*p out of here with your "Brazilian Jiu Jitsu."

Originally Posted by Weathermaker

Ah..but it sounds like, it'd be okay to kick the cr*p out of here with your "Brazilian Jiu Jitsu."

I think the point he was making was that if there is enough skilled manpower around, you don't need a weapon on an unarmed girl.

I saw an awful lot of supposedly skilled manpower in that vid.

$.02

Originally Posted by Weathermaker

Ah..but it sounds like, it'd be okay to kick the cr*p out of here with your "Brazilian Jiu Jitsu."

Nah, not ok, just saying that I could probably have held my own. But I also made the observation that I wasn't there and didn't know the context of the situation, so their actions may have been needed.
It was just my $.02

P.s. That's one of the cool things about BJJ is that it has little to do with striking and a lot to do with joint manipulation/chokes, so people tend to become very compliant without ever landing a blow (although choking this girl out would have been a pretty bad idea here)