Thread: Can anyone help ID this?

Markings:
11 and 11 on top of each other right in front of trigger guard
An indented square on right side of butt/grip
A stamping that appears to be a E on top, two ferns? crossed with a S on the left and an R on the right. (under close inspection the R on right appears to be a Z)
A sideways 8 possibly an infinity symbol on the left side of the barrel

Barrel is .41 in diameter

Here are pics

Called a "Boot gun" back in the day, this one appears to be Belgian made.

Is this your new carry weapon? Very cool.
Mike

Originally Posted by bruzer

Is this your new carry weapon? Very cool.
Mike

Yeh its the newest thing in tactical carry. Just need to get my crimson trace installed

Someone elses in person feedback is that it is deff not belgian made and its not a boot gun. Its considered a muff gun. So he says...

I have added a new picture showing the mark in detail.

connetticut valley arms used to sell something like it in the 70s,i think it had a brass barrel and frame..

Where are the rails?

It is called a muff pistol, and was commonly carried by 'ladies of quality' whilst riding on the mail/stagecoaches of the day. This one is not Belgian-made, as it has none of the proof marks associated with Belgian manufacture since the late 1600's. It is, however, a very cheaply-made item, and appears to have a simulated English proof-mark with an E instead of a crown. The other numbers noted are assembly numbers, and identify this gun when it was a box of bits awaiting assembly into a completed gun. The square and infinity symbols are not known to me.

I've sent a copy of the proof marks to the Proofmaster at the Birmingham Proof House, asking for his advice.

Watch this space.

tac in yUK

Thank you very much tac

Mr bbowl - I've had a response from Sam in the Birmingham Proof House, one that I'm not that amazed to read. It is categorically NOT an English proof mark of any kind - if it were so, it would have had a crown where the 'E' is located. It is quite nicely-made, though although very plain, and might be Belgian, although agian, it lacks any of the required marks for a gun made there, too. It is more usual to see guns of this type with a turn-off barrel - the barrel has a lug-like protruberance underneath at the breech end, and a C-shaped 'key' engages in it and is used to unscrew the barrel. The chamber thus revealed can be filled with powder, a ball placed on the cup-like depression, and the barrel screwed back on.

Sadly, this doesn't help you much, but whiles away a couple of minutes for ya!

Verdict?

Who knows?

Belgian for the export trade, even Spanish ditto - the 'E' might just be for Eibar, centre of the Basque region gun-making trades, then and now.

Sorry I can't help more.

tac

Thanks for the effort. FYI this barrel does not unscrew it is all one piece with the frame

Yes, I know, that's why I wrote 'it is more usual to see guns of this type with a turn-off barrel'. Whinemeal, don't despair - it's a cute little thing to have. are you going to try and shoot it?

Best

tac

If I knew where to get a new nipple I would. I am more interested in just selling it though. Without knowing what it is its hard to find the nipple. May be just as hard once I do know what it is though!

Well, it is without doubt going to be a metric nipple, whatever the thread might be. I assume that the gun IS unloaded? You HAVE checked, haven't you? If so, I recommend a good overnight soak in Kroil to loosen it up and then carefully remove it. Dixie Gun Works have an amazing selection of vintage nipples on offer, and you might just get lucky with something that is standard metric thread for one of the modern-day replicas.

Let's know how you get on.

tac, wishing he was on Cannon Beach

I wouldn't have any idea what to order. Yes it is unloaded I double checked

I just had to drop in some photos of my Allen and Thurber with the screw off barrel. Your's looks significantly different in the lack of barrel removal and the 1 piece grip. While often called a boot pistol, I can't imagine carrying it like that. The hammer has 2 positions, sitting on the cap and full cock. Either way you lose your ankle.

If you ever open it up I'd love a photo of the mainspring. Mine is missing and I'm having trouble visualizing what to make.

Even back in the early / mid 1800's there were pretty good standards for threads. If you get the nipple out, it shouldn't be hard to match it to something modern/replica. Absolute worst case would be a trip to a small lathe.

Good luck.

The nipple screws out easily. Any way you could send a link to what might fit? Mine has 3 hammer positions. Sitting on the nipple, 1/2 cock and full.
Here is a pic of mine with handle out showing mainspring. Also a pic of the nipple

Thanks for the photos.

Here's a link to a nipple. Dixie Gun Works muzzleloading, blackpowder and rare antique gun supplies.

If you roll back to Dixie's main page and search for "nipple" you'll get pages of choices. Metric 6 x 1 and 6 x .75 seem common. It should be easy to find a 6 x 1 bolt at a hardware store for a fit check. 6 x .75 is a little tougher. #11 caps are pretty common for this type of thing and can be had at most sporting goods gun stores. Nipples for "Musket caps" are pretty big and might not fit your hammer.

Ok thanks that gives me a good idea of what I need. I'll find somewhere that doesn't charge 10x true shipping cost though, can't stand that. It's a tiny tiny part, send it USPS first class for under a $1...