Thread: Juggernaut M14 Rogue Bullpup Buyers First Impressions

I posted my first impression on some other boards I belong too, also. I figure there are some people out there like me that aren't selling the thing that want an honest opinion on the weapon system. I wanted to start a new thread on building one of these. This is my first Bullpup, Here you go...


FIRST IMPRESSION: The thing is Light, Stock, buttstock, and grip. It is a lot more compact than in seems in the picture, which makes me happy. This ain't no JAllen or ERB. This is a rifle that you could shoulder without any extra burden to patrol.

I am tempted to leave it lightweight for a CQB style, or Heavy Barrel for a reasonable weight counter-sniper?? Still on the fence with this.

I took a look at the trigger, and it looks well designed, not cheap. It has a push button safety. I will have to wait for the build to see how it feels. Reports are it adds a pound. We will see.

The trigger group on the M14 is used to secure the weapon into the stock. It is High Quality Aluminum all over. It together real easy judging by the instructions. I have it half way together, checking things out. The installation looks stupid proof easy. The trigger guard is large enough for me to shoot with gloves. I was concerned about that.

I took a look at the grip, and compared it to an Ergo Palm Swell I had. I was going to just put it on, figuring any stock grip would be cheap. Well, I had to put the Ergo back in the box. The Hand Grip on the Rogue is awesome. You can see that this is one place JTact ended up putting a little weight onto the weapon. It is nice and hefty, It is a well engineered rubber grip and ergo friendly. Since this is a bullpup, you want a good center of mass grip. i like it a lot.

The rails come standard with numbers that cost extra on other stocks. They do not protrude in a way that makes them sharp edged. There is not much to snag things on with the Rouge. I am thinking where I want to put a rail attached sling point, or just so with a single point.

The receiver is well covered and provides protection to my face. I like that. It is interesting to see how they engineered it. The top of the stock has a rubberized place for a good cheek-weld. I am wondering if I am going to have to pad that for a large scope.

As some have said, it was up there in price. I compared it to my other builds and it seems every custom build ended up costing around the same. $1000 plus a piece. The difference is you don't have to buy anything else. Even a JAllen needs a separate handguard to get top rail. This weapon includes everything.

Building an ERB, or a Troy are both, just as expensive. If you are going to build battle rifles out of the M14, you know the price. No cry babies here. After good optics you may well be over $4000 for the total weapon.

If you like doing M14 builds, I would recommend buying this stock. It is a quality piece. It is the lightest build out there that gives you a scope rail solution for the M14. This stock is way different than the others. If offers a small signature. No one would think that you were packing a 1000 meter weapon. The Rogue really has a nice light weight small footprint. Nobody would guess you had .308s shooting out of that.

Changing out mags is definitely going to be different. I think that if you want to have a nice portable package like the Rogue you are going to have to enter the world of the Bullpup, and learn a new weapon skill.

Welcome BrokenSailor,

It's nice to see that I'm not the only one with a bullpup M14.
Post pictures and details of your build when it's completed


The evolution of H2O's bullpup M14

BrokenSailor, make sure you get a left side charging handle - it's a must have item.

You should also consider adding the enhanced mag release from SADLAK.

Try it, you'll like it

If you don't get the black chassis you get what JTac calls 'Tactical Tan'

This color best matches Goldenrod 4 8b6914 on this color chart



Different lighting and lighting intensities sometimes makes the color look lighter and more reflective.



Competition is good...

I guess the OP was a drive by, hit and run poster...

Oh well, if you are interested in the bullpup conversion you can follow the Rogue on Facebook

Originally Posted by BrokenSailor

I took a look at the grip, and compared it to an Ergo Palm Swell I had.
I was going to just put it on, figuring any stock grip would be cheap.
Well, I had to put the Ergo back in the box. The Hand Grip on the Rogue is awesome.
You can see that this is one place JTact ended up putting a little weight onto the weapon.
It is nice and hefty, It is a well engineered rubber grip and ergo friendly.
Since this is a bullpup, you want a good center of mass grip. i like it a lot.

The factory Hogue grip is nice, but it angles to the rear creating tight quarters when
changing mags especially if you have larger hands and/or run 25 round CMI mags or
the 50 round drum mag from XS-Products. I solved this problem by replacing the Rogue
grip with a MIAD from Magpul. This change provided the room I needed... YRMV.

The MOE-K grip from Magpul is a good choice, the angle is less than that of the MIAD...

Your opinions on the Rogue seem to change whenever you can turn a profit. The Rogue was great when you were selling them. Now they suck because they won't give you anymore? Telling people that trigger shoes, extensions, mono-pods, mag release, etc. are all necessary to make the Rogue work right... The chassis is perfectly fine as is. People should not listen to your advice. More real users will eventually come forth.

There are actually people out there like me that want honest opinions on how the unit works in the real world. Not your con-artist type advice on what product HAVE to be added (sold by you of course) to make the weapon system workable. Truth is, it is a real nice well centered shooting platform.

Don't be sending me threatening PMs such as the one below. People like you are why I don't spend more time on this forum. You are just a plain embarrassment...

WTF?

You wrote:

" To my knowledge from talking to JTact, H2Oman started out trying to be a distributor, hence the interest in his posting all over the place. I checked him out to pick up my chassis, but with his cheesy web site, I didn't feel comfortable. I went direct to the manufacturer. Cost me an extra hundred for the comfort. Glad I did, as they booted him from distributing. Too much bad juju from him I gathered. Nothing personal against him. I do not know the guy. I just know that he seems to get booted from every forum he joins under a number of names. Why that is, I know not either... The threads have gone silent from his posting, and his pictures pulled since. "

You really shouldn't make statements about what you don't know a thing about.

I suggest that you remove this portion of your recent post on Snipers Hide and any other posts that attack me personally immediately or face legal action for slander and defamation of character. BTW, your comments are also putting JTac in the cross hairs because you are acting their mouthpiece.

This is your one and only chance to make good.

H2O MAN

Do you understand why I sent you a private message and why I didn't voice my concerns about you on the open forum?

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BrokenSailor, you don't know me and there is no truth in what you have ever posted about me.

You have never dealt with me, yet you work to tarnish my stellar reputation and customer service record - why?

You have never met or spoken with me, yet you feel the need to run your mouth and attack me - why is that?

You drink the Kool-Aid and repeat the lie filled BS that Dino feeds you without question - why?

Unprovoked, you have attacked and slandered me on several forums - why?

Can you think and speak for yourself or are you just a stooge for Dino?



Give me an honest, no BS answer to these questions or hit the door because I'm sick of your lies and BS.

Dino Brunetti, the National Sales Director for JUGGERNAUT TACTICAL, INC. reluctantly admitted to me that JTac sales have sky rocketed and it's mainly due to my sharing positive reviews, detailed pictures, honest evaluations and my practical modifications. It seems that I do a much better job of marketing their product than they have... that's why Dino sought me out in the first place. Understand that I receive no compensation from JTac for my hard work - nothing! In fact, JTach actually stole sales and commissions from me. The worst thing about Dino, JTac/Juggernaut Tactical is their total lack of professionalism... they are dishonest.

Buyer beware.



.

Well, it's been fun, but I no longer have a functional bullpup M14... I have removed the action and accessories,
they have all been set aside for use in a new M14.CA Blackfeather stock that's heading my way from Canada.

I have decided to sell my modified #1Rogue stock to a friend ... he will continue the evolution I started.

I still have plenty to say about the stock, the company and the people that work there - stay tuned.




If you are considering buying a Rogue there are a few things you should know about it once you get over the initial 'grin factor'.

1. It's heavy... it's heavier than any of my SAGE EBRs and TROY MCS that I've owned.

2. The Rogue trigger uses a steel rod to reach back to the rifles trigger, you feel the added linkage and the rod rattles.

3. Mag changes require an unorthodox 'reach around' technique that is cumbersome and slow.

4. Optics require additional height... I used a riser and a set of tall rings to get proper scope alignment.

5. Unlike the SAGE EBR, the Rogue chassis is not designed to enhance your rifles accuracy.

6. The Rogue conversion kit is expensive, expect to spend around $1k to get a basic kit... more for accessories.


Bottom line:

The Rogue conversion kit is an interesting option for a few owners of the M14/M1A rifle. The kit attempts
to transform the basic service rifle into a modern day, multi-purpose Close-Quarter Battle Sniper rifle.
It's bullpup configuration attempts to do this by moving the rifle action 11.75 inches closer to the users body.
This may look good on paper, but the design ends up transforming a once well balanced rifle with good,
user friendly ergonomics into a heavy unbalanced rifle with most of the weight distributed to the rear...
mag changes become slow & problematic and the bullpup configuration is not user friendly to left handed shooters.

*The basic kit weighs just over 6 pounds... that's before you install a barreled action and minimal accessories.
A complete Scout barreled action weighs just under 6 pounds... a naked Rogue will weigh 12 pounds and it only gets heavier.

Caveat emptor

The initial ‘grin factor’ when you first start using the JTac Rogue is HUGE and it can last a month or more, but it does
fade away and then you are forced to accept the reality that you are stuck with a fat bottomed girl that rides a Moped.


The ROGUE bullpup conversion, in my opinion, may be a decent Range Toy/Competition rifle set-up,
but it has no place in a working rifle role. The SAGE EBR is a better choice in a working rifle role.

.

I do like the concept and I will revisit it if and when a lighter kit becomes
available, but it will need to be at least two pounds lighter than the Rogue.

Word on the street is that JTactical took my advice and reduced the weight of their 2nd generation Rogue conversion kit,
unfortunately they only reduced it by a few ounces (less than a pound) - not enough to make a meaningful difference, but
it's a step in the right direction... the 2nd generation Rogue kit is still more than a pound HEAVIER than a SAGE Mod 1 stock.


*****

A check of multiple internet sites/forums shows waning
interest in the J-Tactical M14 Rogue bullpup conversion kit.

I guess the grin factor doesn't last very long after all.

some people's children