ATTENTION VETERANS: PLEASE READ THIS THREAD

**Silver Fox** · 10-31-2010, 07:57 AM

I didn't know what section to put this in, so since it is firearm related I am putting it here. I have found a way for VA Vocational Rehabilitation to pay for your American Gunsmithing Institute (AGI) video correspondence gunsmithing course. Trust me this isn't just gun video's it is an entire business plan to just about every course they offer. Even if you have a job/career you are in right now, you are still eligible if you meet the following criteria:

1. Have a VA disability of 30% or more. If you don't have this completed, this process will take the longest especially if you are non-combat or are non OEF/OIF. Don't give up yet I know of people who specialize in VA applications.
2. Have not used your post 9/11 G.I. Bill (If you don't use this you can transfer to a family member, ask me about this later) or your Montgomery GI bill from 'back in the day'. I have used 36 months when I was in college, so now I am only eligible for 12 more months.
3. Have not used more than 48 months of prior VA VOC-REHAB
4. Have an honorable discharge on your DD-214

As a soon to be veteran I want to ensure my fellow veterans are informed with the most current up to date info, so that they can make the best decisions for themselves. If this is an interest to you, please PM me. I do not work for the VA, nor AGI. I am just a guy who gives a rats hind quarter.

If you know a veteran who isn't a member of this sight and has interest in gunsmithing, please PM me there contact info.

Thank you,

SF-

**tac** · 10-31-2010, 08:52 AM

What a great idea it is to help veterans in the US Armed Forces [including USCG] to get a foot back on the ladder in civilian life.

Here in UK we get a document that shows we were good/bad/indifferent - nobody but you ever sees it, so you can say whatever you like about yourself. AND, if you apply for it, a nice neat little pin that you can wear that tells everyone [who knows WTF it means] that you have served your country in some capacity for an undlisclosed length of time.

Of course, for our veterans with multiple disabilities, such as loss of any or all limbs, hearing, sight, mind, or, as with many IED vicitms, all of them together, we also have the uh, and the uh.......well, nothing else, really.....

tac

**wwkii** · 10-31-2010, 09:33 AM

you say that i can still use my gi bill for school i got out in 96 im not a combat vet or have a disability. i do have a honorable discharge but i never used my collage money can i still use it if so please let me know how

**bwells** · 10-31-2010, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by wwkii

you say that i can still use my gi bill for school i got out in 96 im not a combat vet or have a disability. i do have a honorable discharge but i never used my collage money can i still use it if so please let me know how

According to my 2008 edition of the Federal Benefits for Veterans and Dependents, GI Bill eligibility generally expires ten years after discharge. Of course, there are exceptions.

I'm sure somebody else will know more.

**Trlsmn** · 10-31-2010, 10:09 AM

A serious question I would have is how does this course offer accreditation and certification?

I read their FAQ and found the parts about certification to be vague and presumptive not actually admitting that they or the courses will bring certification. I would seriously find an answer to this question before you jump in head first.

If it's just about the videos and you have to get certification elsewhere, well? Those vids are all over the Torrent sights like Piratebay BTW, of course I would have to point out that they are pirate copies and you shouldn't download them.

Can I become certified by taking your retail courses?
Answers vary. If you are intending to purchase all the videos in our Law Enforcement Armorer’s Course, for example, as long as you buy the test separately you can obtain a Certification as a Law Enforcement Armorer once you complete the testing successfully. Otherwise you would need to purchase one of our certified professional courses in order to obtain a profession Gunsmithing certificate.

Answers vary? WTF does that mean.

Please don't take this as discouragement as the desire to seek further education is always the correct path. Just be careful and use due diligence to find out if it is what it says it is and it is the best use of that GI benefit.

**Silver Fox** · 10-31-2010, 01:12 PM

I just lost an essay that I typed on my iPhone. Sucks to be me sometimes.

1. This is not GI Bill related this VA voc-rehab and you need to be 30% disabled or more to qualify. If not then this does not apply to you.

2. Tac, my L1A1 was lonely this past summer. Maybe next summer? Also howcome the Queen doesn't take better care of Her Veterans?

3. Hate to break it to you but anybody without any credentials can call themselves a gunsmith. This program is accrediated by the state of CA and the department of Veteran Affairs. This is the 'enhanced master gunsmith' course and is all enclusive. Cool thing about VOC-REHAB is that it covers all needs of the education (tools, books, special chairs if your Dr prescribes it, etc...)

I'll spew the rest of my words tomorrow.

SF-

**Silver Fox** · 10-31-2010, 01:37 PM

This is not a GI benefit. That would imply that VA VOC-REHAB was a part of a benefit package you were promised upon entering service. This a vocational rehabilitation program for Veterans disabled 30% or more.

SF-

**m1gunr** · 10-31-2010, 05:14 PM

Vocational Rehab benefits expire 10 years after you become eligible. Never to be seen again.

Montgomery GI Bill has to have had $1200 paid into it in order for you to be eligible.

**Celtic Armory** · 10-31-2010, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by Trlsmn

A serious question I would have is how does this course offer accreditation and certification?

I read their FAQ and found the parts about certification to be vague and presumptive not actually admitting that they or the courses will bring certification. I would seriously find an answer to this question before you jump in head first.

If it's just about the videos and you have to get certification elsewhere, well? Those vids are all over the Torrent sights like Piratebay BTW, of course I would have to point out that they are pirate copies and you shouldn't download them.

Answers vary? WTF does that mean.

Please don't take this as discouragement as the desire to seek further education is always the correct path. Just be careful and use due diligence to find out if it is what it says it is and it is the best use of that GI benefit.

When you take AGI courses, you get (if you pass the tests) AGI certification. It does not give you a college degree nor does it give you a government certification or license. However their training courses are the next best thing to actually moving to one of the 5 states that have a college that actually teaches gunsmithing. The AGI Professional Gunsmith course was instructed by Bob Dunlap and recorded at Lassen College when he designed their course and taught there.

The one down side is the lack of hands on training if you don't have the firearms and tools covered.

**atypicalparkie** · 10-31-2010, 11:38 PM

I really HOPE that this program (and others) is/are available and the VA will cover it for all you who've served us with selfless dedication & suffered a VA disability of 30% or more... jeesh a 'qualifying injury', that is a frustrating concept... I'm of the opinion that every. single. person. who has served honorably should be entitled to pursuing continuing education as they so choose & I'm 110% glad to have my taxes go towards the expansion of Veteran's benefits & whatever else you might need. Good luck! and THANK YOU for serving.

**cetme** · 10-31-2010, 11:51 PM

bottom line to be a gunsmith you will need to have a ffl license to work on another persons firearm.,unless under someone elses license

**turboss** · 11-01-2010, 12:10 PM

My brother (100% disabled) signed up for this and loves it. He works under a mentor and recently got his C&R but mentor is an FFL. He can only work a few hours a week, but it makes him feel productive again and he truly loves what he does.

**cetme** · 11-01-2010, 02:06 PM

i have a couple friends that basically " contract " under a few gun dealers in the area.they are also disabled,,its a good way to make money doing what they love and get paid for it, and at their own pace.

**cyclesurvival** · 11-01-2010, 04:45 PM

I and my stepson took a day to go up the gorge and visit a friend. He is a 2 tour Iraq veteran, and received the Purple Heart and is classified as disabled. He is in school now. We were talking about how big a pain it is to get the benefits that you have coming. Luck would have it and he was taken care of by the VA. But he has heard that if you don’t ask the right questions repeatedly then you don’t get the right answers . I also have an old friend who was in Korea and work for the Berea of Indian affairs and that’s what his job was making sure that Indian vets got there benefits. So I’m telling him he needs to spread the word. ON exit the troops need to pay attention to the classes and make sure they understand. Ask for help if they don’t understand the information. The people who do the discharges don’t care, they just want you gone so they can get to the next person. So they need to ask questions sometime repeatedly. Many thanks to all you veterans and hope being home doesn’t disappoint you

**atypicalparkie** · 11-01-2010, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by turboss

My brother (100% disabled) signed up for this and loves it. He works under a mentor and recently got his C&R but mentor is an FFL. He can only work a few hours a week, but it makes him feel productive again and he truly loves what he does.

Awesome Turboss. That's one key to happiness, yeah? My own 'disability' is what got me into enjoying firearms about 5-6 years ago, & what's led me to want to become a safety instructor myself. The feeling of being able to WORK and be productive... well, it sure can make everything seem better.

to your bro!!

kinda off topic... I'm gonna start another thread on this, I'm looking for opportunities to volunteer as a Veteran's advocate or similar, take notes or do research or whatever to help out... from my own civilian saga of battling evil, private insurance companies & my brother (USAF vet) battling VA govt bureaucracy, I kinda have a good idea of how much ******** people have to wade through just to get from point A to point B...

**Silver Fox** · 11-03-2010, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by atypicalparkie

I'm looking for opportunities to volunteer as a Veteran's advocate or similar, take notes or do research or whatever to help out... from my own civilian saga of battling evil, private insurance companies & my brother (USAF vet) battling VA govt bureaucracy, I kinda have a good idea of how much ******** people have to wade through just to get from point A to point B...

Contact your local VFW and American Legion offices, they have reps who do just that. You might be able to get some "training" but definitely make contacts to do just that.

Hope that helps and lock on!!

SF-

**Silver Fox** · 11-03-2010, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Trlsmn

A serious question I would have is how does this course offer accreditation and certification?

I read their FAQ and found the parts about certification to be vague and presumptive not actually admitting that they or the courses will bring certification. I would seriously find an answer to this question before you jump in head first.

If it's just about the videos and you have to get certification elsewhere, well? Those vids are all over the Torrent sights like Piratebay BTW, of course I would have to point out that they are pirate copies and you shouldn't download them.

Answers vary? WTF does that mean.

Please don't take this as discouragement as the desire to seek further education is always the correct path. Just be careful and use due diligence to find out if it is what it says it is and it is the best use of that GI benefit.

A couple of things;

1. Aside from some trade schools around the U.S. there isn't a "certified gunsmith program". Are you thinking there is some organization like the National Institute of Automobile Service Excellence which will bestow upon you the coveted ASE certificate and a patch you can wear? There are some guilds who are into firearm customizing and traditional "gunsmithing" but there isn't any organization that will approve your or any training as an "official gunsmith". If you pay your dues to some of these guilds your name will appear on there scrolls, but what training do you need to be in the guild? When was the last time you walked into a gunsmith shop and asked the 'smith, "so what are your credentials?". Never? Or did you just look at some of his past work and listen to some word of mouth recommendations and left your firearm to be worked on. Most likely course of action, huh?

2. AGI 'enhanced master gunsmith course' (which by the way includes hand tools, table top lathe, drill press, belt sander, welding tips etc... too much to list) is just an approach to gain experience gunsmithing. Many gunsmiths never went to school for gunsmithing, they have some kind of mechanical, mechanical engineering or machining background with a strong passion for firearms and just went into it after much deliberation. So to say, be careful is kind of uninformed on your part. There are currently 23 to 24 disabled Vets nation wide who are enrolled in this program and it is allowing them to gain experience.

3. There is a misconception that military armorers are gunsmiths. Armorers are part swapers or identifying conditions for appropriate repair, but not a gunsmith in the civilian sector.

4. The whole trade school approach seems like a good idea, if your 18 and haven't got any other responsibilities in your life. Bad thing about it, is you graduate a couple years later and your what maybe 21 years old? Maybe 22? So what dollar value do you place your trust in this 22 year old gunsmith? There is a certain maturity one would most likely look for in a gunsmith and if some Ed Hardy wearing kid is claiming to be a gunsmith with a degree from your preferred gunsmith trade school (take your pick you got five to choose from), are you going to leave your Ed Brown 1911 or Noveske AR? Probably not going to happen huh?

5. Another disadvantage to your preferred trade school is that you might have laid your hands on a particular firearm in your education, but how long will it be before you see one again before again? Kind of a perishable skill if you think about it. I am sure a good gunsmith is going to use every source available (book, internet, other gunsmiths) to work on a firearm they might be a little less familiar with so why not a DVD that they own?

6. The issue of correspondence courses being of less value than traditional means of education seems silly huh? I mean if I had an MBA (which the VA would pay for if I where to choose this instead of gunsmithing) from the University of Phoenix (the online school not the actual state school) would it matter to my employer? No. Only thing my employer cares about is if I can get the job done. After a few successful years on the job, would anybody care where I got my MBA from? No. Same applies to gunsmithing, your first couple of years you'll be judged, but if you're worth your salt, customers will know what you're capable of and will be wanting to pay for it.

So what was the issue you have with the AGI course? Somebody can pirate these how to videos and try to gunsmith on there own? Well this is America and we have banks that are out to make a profit gaurdless how it effects its customers, communities or other countries so I am sure somebody might try but eventually karma is a real bee-yatch and it will catch up to them. They are the kind of guy that cuts corners in all aspects of there life to include the firearm you dropped off for repair or customizing.

SF-

**parsons_12b** · 11-04-2010, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Silver Fox

A couple of things;

1. Aside from some trade schools around the U.S. there isn't a "certified gunsmith program". Are you thinking there is some organization like the National Institute of Automobile Service Excellence which will bestow upon you the coveted ASE certificate and a patch you can wear? There are some guilds who are into firearm customizing and traditional "gunsmithing" but there isn't any organization that will approve your or any training as an "official gunsmith". If you pay your dues to some of these guilds your name will appear on there scrolls, but what training do you need to be in the guild? When was the last time you walked into a gunsmith shop and asked the 'smith, "so what are your credentials?". Never? Or did you just look at some of his past work and listen to some word of mouth recommendations and left your firearm to be worked on. Most likely course of action, huh?

2. AGI 'enhanced master gunsmith course' (which by the way includes hand tools, table top lathe, drill press, belt sander, welding tips etc... too much to list) is just an approach to gain experience gunsmithing. Many gunsmiths never went to school for gunsmithing, they have some kind of mechanical, mechanical engineering or machining background with a strong passion for firearms and just went into it after much deliberation. So to say, be careful is kind of uninformed on your part. There are currently 23 to 24 disabled Vets nation wide who are enrolled in this program and it is allowing them to gain experience.

3. There is a misconception that military armorers are gunsmiths. Armorers are part swapers or identifying conditions for appropriate repair, but not a gunsmith in the civilian sector.

4. The whole trade school approach seems like a good idea, if your 18 and haven't got any other responsibilities in your life. Bad thing about it, is you graduate a couple years later and your what maybe 21 years old? Maybe 22? So what dollar value do you place your trust in this 22 year old gunsmith? There is a certain maturity one would most likely look for in a gunsmith and if some Ed Hardy wearing kid is claiming to be a gunsmith with a degree from your preferred gunsmith trade school (take your pick you got five to choose from), are you going to leave your Ed Brown 1911 or Noveske AR? Probably not going to happen huh?

5. Another disadvantage to your preferred trade school is that you might have laid your hands on a particular firearm in your education, but how long will it be before you see one again before again? Kind of a perishable skill if you think about it. I am sure a good gunsmith is going to use every source available (book, internet, other gunsmiths) to work on a firearm they might be a little less familiar with so why not a DVD that they own?

6. The issue of correspondence courses being of less value than traditional means of education seems silly huh? I mean if I had an MBA (which the VA would pay for if I where to choose this instead of gunsmithing) from the University of Phoenix (the online school not the actual state school) would it matter to my employer? No. Only thing my employer cares about is if I can get the job done. After a few successful years on the job, would anybody care where I got my MBA from? No. Same applies to gunsmithing, your first couple of years you'll be judged, but if you're worth your salt, customers will know what you're capable of and will be wanting to pay for it.

So what was the issue you have with the AGI course? Somebody can pirate these how to videos and try to gunsmith on there own? Well this is America and we have banks that are out to make a profit gaurdless how it effects its customers, communities or other countries so I am sure somebody might try but eventually karma is a real bee-yatch and it will catch up to them. They are the kind of guy that cuts corners in all aspects of there life to include the firearm you dropped off for repair or customizing.

SF-

SF you make some good point I know a few disabled vets here in Oregon that are interested in doing just this type of work but they could not go away from home for two plus years this program sounds like it would be a great fit for them.